George's criticisms of Macca
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This is what I'm talking about George
Thats what I'm talking about. Great track. George's version of 'Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea' is also amazing off Brainwashed. I listened to that album this morning. Very good actually. Not Lennon or McCartney, but I was impressed with some of it. The singing drags down some of the songs. But some good lyrics in some, some good music in others. But George puts it together IMO on 'P2 Vatican Blues (Last Saturday Night)'. -
its a bit like comparing partick thistle to celtic and rangers. you see at least i admit im speaking my own opinion only. ive got a feeling 'whobeatle' thinks he/she is writing for 'rolling stone'. and how did he/she know i was american [very astute]. we all love george just like we love ringo. george was everthing i wanted him to be in the beatles.he contributed immensly. lennon or mccartney he wasnt though ,not even close. i wouldnt be suprised actually if he got more help from either of them on his 2/3 great songs.it certainly would make sense to me because after that period [late 1960s] he showed absolutely no sign at all of being able to write anything close to the excellance of 'something' or 'here comes the sun'. the usuall revisionist bullshit that comes with death try to paint him out to be a kind of genius he wasnt. he was a lucky man to have been so close to such majestic genius[lenn/mac] he had a front row seat to the greatest musical minds of populist culture on a creative tidle wave that would never be surpassed. like i said he may have been actually given much more of a leg up in the songwriting dept than any of us are aware of.
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While I'm over here OD'ing on George, if anyone else wants to listen to Somewhere In England, I posted all the links to it a while back, enjoy http://maccaboard.paulmccartney.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=77893&highlight=england actually come to think of it I did basically the same thing with All Things Must Pass... yes, I'm quite the mad YouTube seek and destroy poster. and time waster. and lover of it http://maccaboard.paulmccartney.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=78748&highlight=things+pass I'll be the first to admit I could use a brushing up on George's material. I gave it a try back in college and quickly tired of it. but there's some good stuff in there for sure. on our father 3 hail mary's.. each Saturday night.. I like that.
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beatles1909:
Macsback:
CMackbird:
Most people are given him his due as a talent. He's not on the same level as Lennon/McCartney tho because nobody is.
George had a great talent, nobody would dispute that but to put him in the same league as Lennon & McCartney is total nonsense.
Because he never showed it. Im not saying he is or isnt as good but I dont think he ever had as much chance to shine with the beatles like Lennon and McCartney. He had his moments but he could of had more but was pushed back.
If his songs were good enough they would have made the album. Lennon/McCartney - Champions League Harrison League 1
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lazydynamite88:
he had a front row seat to the greatest musical minds of populist culture on a creative tidle wave that would never be surpassed. like i said he may have been actually given much more of a leg up in the songwriting dept than any of us are aware of.
and while I'm having fun at the moment diving into the back catalogue of George Harrison, to the above, you'll get no arguement from me on that
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FYI, I just read on Beatles examiner that George Harrison's Web site will be streaming -- for free -- the video for the Concert for George to celebrate what would have been his 68th birthday. Here's the link: http://www.examiner.com/beatles-in-national/free-birthday-video-stream-for-concert-for-george The Concert for George has a nice mix of his music and one of the highlights is Paul singing a gorgeous version of All Things Must Pass. And Ringo does a few tunes, Eric Clapton, etc., etc. It's a good concert and this Friday it's free.
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I don't think there's any point in us all arguing about our musical taste. (I find the instrumental sessions of ATMP some of my favorite music ever and I'm not apologizing for it. It's so early 70s and the dated feel of it is part of what attracts me to it). Back to the topic of George's snarky public comments about Paul, there has been much speculation that the song and video to Paul's This One was sort of an apology to George for whatever it was that had come between them. No one but Paul himself can really say, but it was shortly after that video premiered that Paul, George and Ringo discussed how they felt closer again to each other realizing that only the others could understand what each of them has been through. (I know I keep bringing that interview up, but I think it's valid)
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IMO if anything George benefits from Lennon/McCartney because IMO Lennon and McCartney were held to much higher standards in the aftermath of the Beatles, not just by critics but by fans. Harrison just plain never had that problem, either within or outside the Beatles.(I mean with fans and critics). He was NEVER held to the same standards as Lennon/McCartney were.
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high_wilusa:
IMO if anything George benefits from Lennon/McCartney because IMO Lennon and McCartney were held to much higher standards in the aftermath of the Beatles, not just by critics but by fans. Harrison just plain never had that problem, either within or outside the Beatles.(I mean with fans and critics). He was NEVER held to the same standards as Lennon/McCartney were.
good point.
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I think the clash between George and Paul is a little bit more personal and none of us will ever understand it but only between the two of them.The way I look at it,its more like a brotherly quarrel,even siblings have their own rivalries and thats I think what happened to Paul and George.Well Paul do love George and I guess George too without getting too much emotional. "Wah Wah" was written by George about Paul's constant whining in the studio by the way..its more of a personal sibling rivalry..well nobodys perfect Im sure all of us had our feud with our own brothers and sisters,thats the way I see it between Paul and George
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Keith Adagio:
I think the clash between George and Paul is a little bit more personal and none of us will ever understand it but only between the two of them.The way I look at it,its more like a brotherly quarrel,even siblings have their own rivalries and thats I think what happened to Paul and George.Well Paul do love George and I guess George too without getting too much emotional. "Wah Wah" was written by George about Paul's constant whining in the studio by the way..its more of a personal sibling rivalry..well nobodys perfect Im sure all of us had our feud with our own brothers and sisters,thats the way I see it between Paul and George
I wouldn't call it "whining".. more his perfectionistic tendencies, some thing they all had at one point or another..Give Macca some props, he performed on "Wah, Wah" at the Concert For George... George never would have ate crow for him....It's ok to forgive Clapton for stealing your Mrs, it's ok to expect Ringo to forgive you for messing with his Mrs. but you can't forgive John and Paul, especially Paul for being overbearing in the studio...Please..At least Paul contributed to George's songs during the last few years of the Beatles, something John didn't do much of, but Macca deserved to be kicked in public, bs.. I love George Harrison, I really do but his treatment of Paul whenever a camera got put in front of him was WRONG and sad too!! I hope they truly made peace in the end!!
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luigiram:
Keith Adagio:
I think the clash between George and Paul is a little bit more personal and none of us will ever understand it but only between the two of them.The way I look at it,its more like a brotherly quarrel,even siblings have their own rivalries and thats I think what happened to Paul and George.Well Paul do love George and I guess George too without getting too much emotional. "Wah Wah" was written by George about Paul's constant whining in the studio by the way..its more of a personal sibling rivalry..well nobodys perfect Im sure all of us had our feud with our own brothers and sisters,thats the way I see it between Paul and George
I wouldn't call it "whining".. more his perfectionistic tendencies, some thing they all had at one point or another..Give Macca some props, he performed on "Wah, Wah" at the Concert For George... George never would have ate crow for him....It's ok to forgive Clapton for stealing your Mrs, it's ok to expect Ringo to forgive you for messing with his Mrs. but you can't forgive John and Paul, especially Paul for being overbearing in the studio...Please..At least Paul contributed to George's songs during the last few years of the Beatles, something John didn't do much of, but Macca deserved to be kicked in public, bs.. I love George Harrison, I really do but his treatment of Paul whenever a camera got put in front of him was WRONG and sad too!! I hope they truly made peace in the end!!
Paul was a perfectionist in the studio and like you say, contributed not only to George's songs but to John's to, one of the prime examples of this is "The Ballad of John and Yoko" considering the strain in John & Paul's relationship at the time, it was Paul who put all the shite aside to accommodate his buddy, he even done a sleeve-note for " Two Virgins" its been said Paul was pushy in the studio, so what!! that's the mark of a man striving for excellence, maybe by pushing George that little bit harder, Paul gave George the kick up the arse he needed to go on and write better songs, if that was the case, it certainly worked, Paul's contribution to non McCartney songs is well documented, the guy was and still is a workaholic, remember this, John was out of his head most of the time and more interested in Yoko while George had all his mantra stuff going on, it was left to McCartney to keep the greatest band ever alive, Paul was 2 years younger than John and managed to bridge the age gap with him to become his equal, George was about 2 years younger than Paul and kept all his frustrations inside himself only to start slagging off Paul once The Beatles split, maybe George was jealous of the John/Paul relationship, it certainly looks that way when you consider the snide remarks George would make against Paul in the years to follow, later George would have his fall out with John too, it makes you wonder what was really going on in George's mind, maybe one day the real truth about the whole sorry affair will come out.
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another point is that George always felt like Paul (and in some cases John) treated him like he was a little kid. that is why some took Paul's 'baby brother' comment in a negative way when George died though to me it was endearing. I suspect George felt like that when Paul was driving him in the studio to push his work. Paul probably came off as an overbearing parent. (i'm not saying this is wrong on Paul's part, just how Georg might have reacted to it).
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Maybe George got sick of playing someone elses music,John and Pauls. in a rock star head they think they can say anyting and think its ok. I agree , George was lucky in one way is that he was not held accountable as much as John and Paul.George would say something and it was not scrutinised. This John had noted himself.
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Just for the record, George was only 8 months younger than Paul.
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jlw44:
Just for the record, George was only 8 months younger than Paul.
oooooop's sorry, my mistake, for some reason i had 1944 on my mind ops:
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I th ink in a way that is one way that like John they kept the competitive sense of creativity going . Critisim or cretique is one way of helping each other to improve without letting ego get too much in the way love doris.
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Heres a totally crazy thought I was having, out of the blue (Kathryn O?s favorite song btw!), thinking while reading this thread.. Isn?t the fact that John and George said so much bad stuff about Paul thru the years in the media, probably due in part to their own insecurities being exposed at the ?on the spot? moment of the interviews, and their auto-response of defense, or anger/tyring to overpower the situation? Its not so much pure disdain of Paul, as it was having their personal turmoil and obvious issues being well known by the public and the interviewer, some set-up questions by the interviewers, and then the over-compensating for their own feelings of being threatened in general. I think when you watch Paul in interviews, he does a lot of looking up, or to the side, after he?s asked questions. and actually thinking about his responses, and considering his words. I think John and George were the kinds of people who naturally carried a more aggressive spontaneous and some might say defensive chip on their shoulder. and maybe Paul had it too but was able to check himself. Especially in the 70?s interviews w John, he?s staring down the interviewer a lot of times. If you watch Paul he?s sitting back, relaxed, and trying to think And there?s a lot of people who would be like John, its just most of them are not having globally broadcasted and written interviews done to capture every little thing they might say. That?s a big reason I cut John so much slack in the ?bashing Paul? stuff.. I think its just too transparent that it was about other things with John.. and John was a ragingly spontaneous person. also the fact that he?s being asked these questions during times when he was hot about some things, and the guy was always on the attack with everything anyway. And Georges comments I sort of feel similar about.. George loved Paul, but couldn?t stand playing music with him anymore, and had a lot of private gripes and fights with him. On the spot you?re going to get some dirt from him if you start broaching the subjects. And I think its mainly out of his own inability to deal with his own fame. Basically I'm not a psychiatrist but I play one on the internet sometimes I guess my point is just to say I can appreciate the effort and maturity it takes to conduct the kind of interviews Paul has, the way he has throughout some hard times. We can always say I wish he was more off the cuff or whatever, but I bet that?s a large reason why he?s not guilty of saying the kind of crap John and George were prone to saying. Paul?s just better built to handle stuff
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In truth have you ever heard Paul say anything bad about anybody throughout his career in public? Maybe and exception would have been Allen Klein, but generally Paul seems to come from the if you can't say anything nice don't say it at all school. I'm guessing he knows how much words can hurt.
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jlw44:
In truth have you ever heard Paul say anything bad about anybody throughout his career in public? Maybe and exception would have been Allen Klein, but generally Paul seems to come from the if you can't say anything nice don't say it at all school. I'm guessing he knows how much words can hurt.
He did once make a mean remark about Yoko in the early 200o's. He said something like "She's not the brightest button." But of course, that was in response to her ridiculous comment about him. It was either the remark where she dismissed his lyrics as "moon/june" simplistic rhymes compared to the great Lennon, or the one where she called him Salieri to John's Mozart. Either way, she had far worse coming to her than what Paul said. As I recall, after Klein's death a year or two ago, Paul refused to criticize Klein, saying he didn't want to speak ill of the dead. And, needless to say, his behavior during the divorce was absolutely heroic, refusing to stoop to the garbage being hurled from the other side. I don't know how he did it. I'm sure he says plenty in private. But that's the way it should be. Most of these public pissing matches that people get into these days are just because one or the other party wants publicity.