A Big Thank You From PaulMcCartney.com
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gswan:
Michelley:
gswan:
A total refund would be the honerable thing to do, otherwise, yeh .. Paul fleeced us, the site never got out of BETA mode, paid members were told our subscriptions would begin from that date. Didn't happen, service not provided. Full refund please MPL.
Sorry but I don't see how most pioneers/premium folks here were in any way fleeced. Most people bought premium memberships a year ago. And if you did, you got nearly 12 months of benefit out of the site, beta or not. Pretending you didn't -- especially when so many people are in the midst of complaining about all the premium features they want restored -- makes no sense. "I want my money back! And please bring back the Jukebox -- after you've refunded my money." The only people who deserve a refund are those who signed up in the past few months. The rest of us bought a year-long membership. After nearly a year, it got discontinued. So it lasted as long as you thought it was going to last when you signed up.
Sorry, you're wrong. The admin's of the site made it known that because of teething problems, our memberships/subscriptions would not actually start until the site was moved out of BETA mode, and delivering fully whatever it was supposed to. That never happened. All who paid deserve a full refund.
When I signed up as a pioneer, I paid for 12 months of membership. No where on the initial signup did it say that our membership wouldn't officially start until the site was out of beta. The admins of the site only said that LATER, after we'd all signed up, when people were complaining that features weren't working properly, etc. So my point stands: The pioneers/premium members who signed up a year ago got a membership that lasted as long as we thought it was going to last when we initially signed up. So none of us "deserve" a refund. The folks who just signed up in recent months do.
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Michelley:
gswan:
A total refund would be the honerable thing to do, otherwise, yeh .. Paul fleeced us, the site never got out of BETA mode, paid members were told our subscriptions would begin from that date. Didn't happen, service not provided. Full refund please MPL.
Sorry but I don't see how most pioneers/premium folks here were in any way fleeced. Most people bought premium memberships a year ago. And if you did, you got nearly 12 months of benefit out of the site, beta or not. Pretending you didn't -- especially when so many people are in the midst of complaining about all the premium features they want restored -- makes no sense. "I want my money back! And please bring back the Jukebox -- after you've refunded my money." The only people who deserve a refund are those who signed up in the past few months. The rest of us bought a year-long membership. After nearly a year, it got discontinued. So it lasted as long as you thought it was going to last when you signed up.
As Rodrigo points out, we never did get the full premium membership we were promised: "When I paid $60 to become a premium member of paulmccartney.com, I received a message saying that I would get access as a premium member for one year, starting from the day in which the website stops being "beta version". As far as I am concerned, the website never left its "beta" condition. So, this means I have paid $60 for a service I have not and will not receive. Consequently, I think it would be fair if we get a total refund. Rodrigo" The premium content wasn't premium, as just about all of it was available to non-premium members on the site, as well. The only thing we really got was the Jukebox feature that non-premium members got. We're just going on what MPL communicated with us, that we would get a year of premium membership from the time when the site left beta. Well, beta is gone now, and so is our premium membership.
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Edith_gdl:
Or Paul can give us a private concert as payment...
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BOYCIE:
Paulie H:
MPL offered us membership which THEY THEMSELVES said would start FROM THE MOMENT THE SITE CAME OUT OF BETA. Consequently, my membership hasn't yet started. The stuff we've had so far has, to my understanding, been provided free. Thus, so far, I HAVEN'T received what I paid for: that is, a year's membership. The ONLY moral and legal response I can see to this is for MPL to either offer me an alternative product equal in value to the cost of the now-cancelled membership or a refund. And I get to choose which. I hope that the webmaster addresses this issue directly because, frankly, if it isn't, I'll be talking to Trading Standards.
Regardless of what MPL said on the BETA phase membership if you've had 11 months of access to the site you've not really been fleeced too much, it's the fans who've subscribed for a short time who've been screwed. I must admit though that the whole thing as been badly mishandled by all concerned running the website. I think the most annoying thing for me is the fact they're asking for our opinion after the fact, that's what pisses me off a little.
Exactly, Boycie. NOW they want our feedback? After already taking the site out of beta and dropping the services people actually liked? Really? It's like having a traffic accident and asking the people around you how to avoid the accident you just had. :
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walliebaby:
Michelley:
gswan:
A total refund would be the honerable thing to do, otherwise, yeh .. Paul fleeced us, the site never got out of BETA mode, paid members were told our subscriptions would begin from that date. Didn't happen, service not provided. Full refund please MPL.
Sorry but I don't see how most pioneers/premium folks here were in any way fleeced. Most people bought premium memberships a year ago. And if you did, you got nearly 12 months of benefit out of the site, beta or not. Pretending you didn't -- especially when so many people are in the midst of complaining about all the premium features they want restored -- makes no sense. "I want my money back! And please bring back the Jukebox -- after you've refunded my money." The only people who deserve a refund are those who signed up in the past few months. The rest of us bought a year-long membership. After nearly a year, it got discontinued. So it lasted as long as you thought it was going to last when you signed up.
As Rodrigo points out, we never did get the full premium membership we were promised: "When I paid $60 to become a premium member of paulmccartney.com, I received a message saying that I would get access as a premium member for one year, starting from the day in which the website stops being "beta version". As far as I am concerned, the website never left its "beta" condition. So, this means I have paid $60 for a service I have not and will not receive. Consequently, I think it would be fair if we get a total refund. Rodrigo" The premium content wasn't premium, as just about all of it was available to non-premium members on the site, as well. The only thing we really got was the Jukebox feature that non-premium members got. We're just going on what MPL communicated with us, that we would get a year of premium membership from the time when the site left beta. Well, beta is gone now, and so is our premium membership.
I just checked the email I received from the site when I signed up. And there is no such wording about the beta phase. I think people are confusing something the Admins posted on a thread -- in response to complaints that certain premium features weren't working properly -- with something they received in their email from the site. The Admin's comment that our membership wouldn't start until the site was out of beta came AFTER we'd signed up. It wasn't part of the initial agreement. My email lists a specific expiration date of my premium membership. It says nothing about beta.
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Michelley:
walliebaby:
Michelley:
gswan:
A total refund would be the honerable thing to do, otherwise, yeh .. Paul fleeced us, the site never got out of BETA mode, paid members were told our subscriptions would begin from that date. Didn't happen, service not provided. Full refund please MPL.
Sorry but I don't see how most pioneers/premium folks here were in any way fleeced. Most people bought premium memberships a year ago. And if you did, you got nearly 12 months of benefit out of the site, beta or not. Pretending you didn't -- especially when so many people are in the midst of complaining about all the premium features they want restored -- makes no sense. "I want my money back! And please bring back the Jukebox -- after you've refunded my money." The only people who deserve a refund are those who signed up in the past few months. The rest of us bought a year-long membership. After nearly a year, it got discontinued. So it lasted as long as you thought it was going to last when you signed up.
As Rodrigo points out, we never did get the full premium membership we were promised: "When I paid $60 to become a premium member of paulmccartney.com, I received a message saying that I would get access as a premium member for one year, starting from the day in which the website stops being "beta version". As far as I am concerned, the website never left its "beta" condition. So, this means I have paid $60 for a service I have not and will not receive. Consequently, I think it would be fair if we get a total refund. Rodrigo" The premium content wasn't premium, as just about all of it was available to non-premium members on the site, as well. The only thing we really got was the Jukebox feature that non-premium members got. We're just going on what MPL communicated with us, that we would get a year of premium membership from the time when the site left beta. Well, beta is gone now, and so is our premium membership.
I just checked the email I received from the site when I signed up. And there is no such wording about the beta phase. I think people are confusing something the Admins posted on a thread with something they received in their email from the site. The Admin's comment that our membership wouldn't start until the site was out of beta came AFTER we'd signed up. It wasn't part of the initial agreement. My email lists a specific expiration date of my premium membership. It says nothing about beta.
I trust you, so I won't look this up and will state that it might be the case that the e-mail didn't state that our membership would last the year after beta. However, WAS it stated by administration as a promise to premium members? Yup. It doesn't matter if it was stated at sign-up or shortly thereafter: it was stated. It's an expectation that the administration will follow through on what they told us fans. It's poor business practice and there are many of us who are not happy about it. You don't promise fans something and then not deliver on it, instead sending an e-mail thanking us for being loyal fans and then asking for our feedback on the site. As I said earlier, it might not have been as irksome if they had given us some sort of warning. Instead, they swooped in, took it away, and told us AFTER the fact. Yes, I have a right to complain about that, and so do others.
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The whole beta thing is at the very least a grey area. MPL shouldn't not have pushed the site to live in that state,they should have waited and had its "beta" period with perhaps some people from here say,those who could work the bugs out etc,but no they chose a route to ask fans to shell out for something that was at the very best a work in progress.
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Goodness me, some people really can complain about anything - cheer up! Full refund is highly unlikely, especially for those who received their physical package. The only people who could possibly considered themselves ripped off are those who purchased premium membership recently - but that's what the Live Kisses download and the extra goodies (which we don't know will be included yet) is intended as: a) A Thank You for helping in the development of the site b) Compensation for the rest of your membership (so those of us who had almost a full year are getting a good deal physically of this) c) Ensure that the money spend on membership is value for money That's the point of compensation - you didn't get exactly what you paid for, so you'll be rewarded with this instead. And the people who complain that they don't even want Live Kisses really should be a bit more grateful and stop being so grumpy! I for one think that with the original goodies, the nearly 1 year of premium membership and the new goodies is easily value for money. Yes it was a shame to see all the premium pictures appearing on Tumblr etc seconds after they were posted but oh well. The Pre-sale stuff I didn't much care for. The 'Beta' argument. We were told, a while after the new site's launch, that once the site left Beta our period of membership would be reset for a whole year due to the teething problems of the site etc. This doesn't, in my eyes, mean that just because the site didn't leave Beta and the membership period didn't get reset that somehow means that 'service wasn't provided'. You still got access to premium content for up to a whole year, try and be thankful for what you've had. Things are trialed, mistakes are made, nothing is perfect, so accept that the premium aspect is over and help the new new site develop. For example, I enjoyed all the little archive tidbits for each album etc. Rude Studio was cool but I didn't use it often, neither the Jukebox because the audio quality wasn't great (in mono, low resolution!) for me being a member of a community of like-minded fans and seeing cool photos and videos was enough. BUT I still want me one of those Wing's t-shirts that were advertised briefly but still aren't available!
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I, for one, believe that we got value for money. We didn't get an arm, a leg or anything we've all been dreaming of for the last 25 years. But that's not what most websites provide. Although large groups of people, as soon as any kind of money is involved, seem to expect that ...
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JThrillington:
Goodness me, some people really can complain about anything - cheer up! Full refund is highly unlikely, especially for those who received their physical package. The only people who could possibly considered themselves ripped off are those who purchased premium membership recently - but that's what the Live Kisses download and the extra goodies (which we don't know will be included yet) is intended as: a) A Thank You for helping in the development of the site b) Compensation for the rest of your membership (so those of us who had almost a full year are getting a good deal physically of this) c) Ensure that the money spend on membership is value for money That's the point of compensation - you didn't get exactly what you paid for, so you'll be rewarded with this instead. And the people who complain that they don't even want Live Kisses really should be a bit more grateful and stop being so grumpy! I for one think that with the original goodies, the nearly 1 year of premium membership and the new goodies is easily value for money. Yes it was a shame to see all the premium pictures appearing on Tumblr etc seconds after they were posted but oh well. The Pre-sale stuff I didn't much care for. The 'Beta' argument. We were told, a while after the new site's launch, that once the site left Beta our period of membership would be reset for a whole year due to the teething problems of the site etc. This doesn't, in my eyes, mean that just because the site didn't leave Beta and the membership period didn't get reset that somehow means that 'service wasn't provided'. You still got access to premium content for up to a whole year, try and be thankful for what you've had. Things are trialed, mistakes are made, nothing is perfect, so accept that the premium aspect is over and help the new new site develop. For example, I enjoyed all the little archive tidbits for each album etc. Rude Studio was cool but I didn't use it often, neither the Jukebox because the audio quality wasn't great (in mono, low resolution!) for me being a member of a community of like-minded fans and seeing cool photos and videos was enough. BUT I still want me one of those Wing's t-shirts that were advertised briefly but still aren't available!
Fair points, but here's my rebuttal : 1. Many of us hate Kisses. Why would we want a live version for free? 2. They closed the premium section with no warning, leaving many of us reeling as we are now no longer able to access the messages we received on our profile pages, or contact folks who were banned from this forum. 3. The forum is free, and was never included in the premium content, so being part of this community was something that has been available for 10 years now. 4. It's poor practice to say to members who paid that they would get a year's membership from the time the site left beta, and now that it has, thank us for being fans but yank the offer away. 5. I'm not looking for a refund. I'm angry at what MPL did to us, and I'm venting so that MPL will hear what I'm saying, even though I doubt they really care about our feedback or are actually reading this. If they cared about us or what we thought, they wouldn't have done this in the fashion they did in the first place. I'll get over this eventually, but I need a few days to be angry first.
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walliebaby:
BOYCIE:
Paulie H:
MPL offered us membership which THEY THEMSELVES said would start FROM THE MOMENT THE SITE CAME OUT OF BETA. Consequently, my membership hasn't yet started. The stuff we've had so far has, to my understanding, been provided free. Thus, so far, I HAVEN'T received what I paid for: that is, a year's membership. The ONLY moral and legal response I can see to this is for MPL to either offer me an alternative product equal in value to the cost of the now-cancelled membership or a refund. And I get to choose which. I hope that the webmaster addresses this issue directly because, frankly, if it isn't, I'll be talking to Trading Standards.
Regardless of what MPL said on the BETA phase membership if you've had 11 months of access to the site you've not really been fleeced too much, it's the fans who've subscribed for a short time who've been screwed. I must admit though that the whole thing as been badly mishandled by all concerned running the website. I think the most annoying thing for me is the fact they're asking for our opinion after the fact, that's what pisses me off a little.
Exactly, Boycie. NOW they want our feedback? After already taking the site out of beta and dropping the services people actually liked? Really? It's like having a traffic accident and asking the people around you how to avoid the accident you just had. :
Exactly! Why do they care NOW? Acyually...they probably don't.
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oobu24:
walliebaby:
BOYCIE:
Paulie H:
MPL offered us membership which THEY THEMSELVES said would start FROM THE MOMENT THE SITE CAME OUT OF BETA. Consequently, my membership hasn't yet started. The stuff we've had so far has, to my understanding, been provided free. Thus, so far, I HAVEN'T received what I paid for: that is, a year's membership. The ONLY moral and legal response I can see to this is for MPL to either offer me an alternative product equal in value to the cost of the now-cancelled membership or a refund. And I get to choose which. I hope that the webmaster addresses this issue directly because, frankly, if it isn't, I'll be talking to Trading Standards.
Regardless of what MPL said on the BETA phase membership if you've had 11 months of access to the site you've not really been fleeced too much, it's the fans who've subscribed for a short time who've been screwed. I must admit though that the whole thing as been badly mishandled by all concerned running the website. I think the most annoying thing for me is the fact they're asking for our opinion after the fact, that's what pisses me off a little.
Exactly, Boycie. NOW they want our feedback? After already taking the site out of beta and dropping the services people actually liked? Really? It's like having a traffic accident and asking the people around you how to avoid the accident you just had. :
Exactly! Why do they care NOW? Acyually...they probably don't.
Yup. Pretty much.
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hengirl:
The whole beta thing is at the very least a grey area. MPL shouldn't not have pushed the site to live in that state,they should have waited and had its "beta" period with perhaps some people from here say,those who could work the bugs out etc,but no they chose a route to ask fans to shell out for something that was at the very best a work in progress.
Remember all the problems with browsers? Trying to log on there? OMG! You sure would have thought that HP would have been able to figure some of that stuff out. Podgie, I know it's too late now. But instead of typing in your long addy, all you needed to do was double click on the blank box & it would 'remember' your addy & you could log on that way. I'd like our pages to be reinstated & our 'friend' list. I have no way to get in touch with a few people.
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oobu24:
hengirl:
The whole beta thing is at the very least a grey area. MPL shouldn't not have pushed the site to live in that state,they should have waited and had its "beta" period with perhaps some people from here say,those who could work the bugs out etc,but no they chose a route to ask fans to shell out for something that was at the very best a work in progress.
Remember all the problems with browsers? Trying to log on there? OMG! You sure would have thought that HP would have been able to figure some of that stuff out. Podgie, I know it's too late now. But instead of typing in your long addy, all you needed to do was double click on the blank box & it would 'remember' your addy & you could log on that way. I'd like our pages to be reinstated & our 'friend' list. I have no way to get in touch with a few people.
I'd like the pages back, as well, and the Jukebox feature back.
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walliebaby:
I trust you, so I won't look this up and will state that it might be the case that the e-mail didn't state that our membership would last the year after beta. However, WAS it stated by administration as a promise to premium members? Yup. It doesn't matter if it was stated at sign-up or shortly thereafter: it was stated. It's an expectation that the administration will follow through on what they told us fans. It's poor business practice and there are many of us who are not happy about it. You don't promise fans something and then not deliver on it, instead sending an e-mail thanking us for being loyal fans and then asking for our feedback on the site. As I said earlier, it might not have been as irksome if they had given us some sort of warning. Instead, they swooped in, took it away, and told us AFTER the fact. Yes, I have a right to complain about that, and so do others.
I think it does matter that the beta "promise" came after Pioneers had already signed up. I signed up for a year. I got (nearly) a year. I don't feel "fleeced" in any way since I got what I paid for when I initially signed up. And I guess the Admins made a mistake by trying to placate Premium members last fall who were complaining about the new site's functionality. I remember when MPL added the word "beta" to the new site -- AFTER we'd all signed up already as Pioneers. I remember a bunch of people posting to ask "what is beta?" Obviously back then MPL thought the Premium membership would be a long term thing. Why that changed we'll never know. But as you said somewhere on this thread, it was probably discontinued due to financial or contractual issues involved MPL, HP, and all of those streaming services like Spotify. I would guess the site was a money pit, costing far more to maintain than it was bringing in -- which is the problem facing countless Web sites. Perhaps a solution would be to offer Premium members -- especially those who signed up in the past six months -- a "gift certificate" or store credit that people could use toward the purchase of something in Paul's store.
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JThrillington:
Goodness me, some people really can complain about anything - cheer up! Full refund is highly unlikely, especially for those who received their physical package. The only people who could possibly considered themselves ripped off are those who purchased premium membership recently - but that's what the Live Kisses download and the extra goodies (which we don't know will be included yet) is intended as: a) A Thank You for helping in the development of the site b) Compensation for the rest of your membership (so those of us who had almost a full year are getting a good deal physically of this) c) Ensure that the money spend on membership is value for money That's the point of compensation - you didn't get exactly what you paid for, so you'll be rewarded with this instead. And the people who complain that they don't even want Live Kisses really should be a bit more grateful and stop being so grumpy! I for one think that with the original goodies, the nearly 1 year of premium membership and the new goodies is easily value for money. Yes it was a shame to see all the premium pictures appearing on Tumblr etc seconds after they were posted but oh well. The Pre-sale stuff I didn't much care for. The 'Beta' argument. We were told, a while after the new site's launch, that once the site left Beta our period of membership would be reset for a whole year due to the teething problems of the site etc. This doesn't, in my eyes, mean that just because the site didn't leave Beta and the membership period didn't get reset that somehow means that 'service wasn't provided'. You still got access to premium content for up to a whole year, try and be thankful for what you've had. Things are trialed, mistakes are made, nothing is perfect, so accept that the premium aspect is over and help the new new site develop. For example, I enjoyed all the little archive tidbits for each album etc. Rude Studio was cool but I didn't use it often, neither the Jukebox because the audio quality wasn't great (in mono, low resolution!) for me being a member of a community of like-minded fans and seeing cool photos and videos was enough. BUT I still want me one of those Wing's t-shirts that were advertised briefly but still aren't available!
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Michelley:
walliebaby:
I trust you, so I won't look this up and will state that it might be the case that the e-mail didn't state that our membership would last the year after beta. However, WAS it stated by administration as a promise to premium members? Yup. It doesn't matter if it was stated at sign-up or shortly thereafter: it was stated. It's an expectation that the administration will follow through on what they told us fans. It's poor business practice and there are many of us who are not happy about it. You don't promise fans something and then not deliver on it, instead sending an e-mail thanking us for being loyal fans and then asking for our feedback on the site. As I said earlier, it might not have been as irksome if they had given us some sort of warning. Instead, they swooped in, took it away, and told us AFTER the fact. Yes, I have a right to complain about that, and so do others.
I think it does matter that the beta "promise" came after Pioneers had already signed up. I signed up for a year. I got (nearly) a year. I don't feel "fleeced" in any way since I got what I paid for when I initially signed up. And I guess the Admins made a mistake by trying to placate Premium members last fall who were complaining about the new site's functionality. I remember when MPL added the word "beta" to the new site -- AFTER we'd all signed up already as Pioneers. I remember a bunch of people posting to ask "what is beta?" Obviously back then MPL thought the Premium membership would be a long term thing. Why that changed we'll never know. But as you said somewhere on this thread, it was probably discontinued due to financial or contractual issues involved MPL, HP, and all of those streaming services like Spotify. I would guess the site was a money pit, costing far more to maintain than it was bringing in -- which is the problem facing countless Web sites. Perhaps a solution would be to offer Premium members -- especially those who signed up in the past six months -- a "gift certificate" or store credit that people could use toward the purchase of something in Paul's store.
Whether before or after signing up, telling people they would get a full year's membership to make up for the site still being in beta does matter. It was a promise made to us that should be fulfilled. We're paying customers, but more importantly fans. You don't treat fans like this if we are as important as they claim we are. I love your idea of store credit, though, as that seems like a fair resolution. Perhaps it could be pro-rated based on months of premium membership. I do, though, think they'd better be coughing up something better than live "Kisses" though.
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walliebaby:
Whether before or after signing up, telling people they would get a full year's membership to make up for the site still being in beta does matter. It was a promise made to us that should be fulfilled. We're paying customers, but more importantly fans. You don't treat fans like this if we are as important as they claim we are. I love your idea of store credit, though, as that seems like a fair resolution. Perhaps it could be pro-rated based on months of premium membership. I do, though, think they'd better be coughing up something better than live "Kisses" though.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree. Again! Pioneers got what we paid for when we signed up. If, after the fact, MPL said "we're going to give you extra time on your membership to make up for the bugs," that was just a nice gesture. But it wasn't what we paid for when we signed up. But, on the bright side, we do have some common ground: Store credit!! The pro-rated idea would be fair (although I'm sure some people wouldn't like that either.)
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Michelley:
walliebaby:
Whether before or after signing up, telling people they would get a full year's membership to make up for the site still being in beta does matter. It was a promise made to us that should be fulfilled. We're paying customers, but more importantly fans. You don't treat fans like this if we are as important as they claim we are. I love your idea of store credit, though, as that seems like a fair resolution. Perhaps it could be pro-rated based on months of premium membership. I do, though, think they'd better be coughing up something better than live "Kisses" though.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree. Again! Pioneers got what we paid for when we signed up. If, after the fact, MPL said "we're going to give you extra time on your membership to make up for the bugs," that was just a nice gesture. But it wasn't what we paid for when we signed up. But, on the bright side, we do have some common ground: Store credit!! The pro-rated idea would be fair (although I'm sure some people wouldn't like that either.)
MPL said it, and then took back what they promised. Nothing to be happy about there, and gestures are only nice when they're followed through on. ...and the premium content never really kicked off, minus the Jukebox feature, which they need to bring back! Seriously, it was great! And if Live Kisses is the best "goodie" we're going to get, it's been available online for 6-8 months now on youtube and other sites. They may as well offer us a download of "Hey Jude".
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oobu24:
Podgie, I know it's too late now. But instead of typing in your long addy, all you needed to do was double click on the blank box & it would 'remember' your addy & you could log on that way. .
Windows XP never remembered the address even though it asked to remember. I usually would look at work from my Iphone or home on my Ipad, and it never had an option to remember. My work computer wouldn't save passwords or info, some security setting. Podgie (needing a much shorter Email address and password) Monkey