Polish Your Polish~Polski
-
Polska gramatyka jest trudna, ale ten sam mówi się też przez niemecką! ja mam ty masz on, ona, ono, to ma my mamy wy macie oni, one mają ja miałem (if I were female: miałam) ty miałeś (if you were female: miałaś) on miał ona miała ono, to miało my mieliśmy (female: miałyśmy) wy mieliście (female: miałyście) oni mieli one miały
-
Sergeant Pepper:
Polska gramatyka jest trudna, ale ten sam mówi się też przez niemecką!
Wow I'm impressed! = Jestem pod wrażeniem! Odpowiedziałeś na zadanie BEZBŁĘDNIE! Rewelacja! "Polska gramatyka jest trudna, ale to samo mówi się też o niemieckiej" Tak, wiem ale wydaje mi się jednak, że polska gramatyka jest trudniejsza, bo w języku polskim odmienia się prawie wszystko i to na setki sposobów. Nie wiem jak można się nauczyć polskiego. Chyba jednak można, bo mamy w Polsce wielu obcokrajowców, którzy mówią po polsku bardzo dobrze. Jest tutaj Stefan Muller, Niemiec z Dusseldorfu, który stał się u nas gwiazdą telewizyjną. Stefan zna polski tak dobrze, że niekiedy poprawia błędy u Polaków
-
To jest bardzo zadziwiająco. Ale widzie się, że niekiedy obcokrajowcy nauczą się języka lepiej niż ziomeki!
-
Sergeant Pepper:
To jest bardzo zadziwiająco. Ale widzie się, że niekiedy obcokrajowcy nauczą się języka lepiej niż ziomeki!
"To zadziwiające. Ale zdaje się, że niekiedy obcokrajowcy nauczą się języka lepiej niż rdzenni mieszkańcy." "Ziomek" has a special usage in the Polish language. In practice it's only applied to German expatriates (just like your step-father, who left Wrocław / Breslau in 1945). A German organisation of such expatriates is known in Polish as 'ziomkowstwo', and has a negative appeal among the Polish people. In the media, whenever we hear about 'ziomkowstwa', it's always about the Polish land that the 'ziomeks' were forced to leave, and that it should be given back to the 'ziomeks'. I think one name I can remember is Erika Stanbauer, or maybe Stannauer. As a matter of fact, Germany lost its eastern territories afer WW2, just like Poland lost almost 50 per cent of her eastern territory. It's sad, very sad. The only winner was Stalin's Russia. You may not know that, but the German territories that Stalin gave to Poland were first mercilessly robbed by the Russians. What Poland got was actually barren land. All factories, plants, works, equipment had been transported to Mother Russia before the Polish took over.... Imagine....
-
Yes, I know that, Paweł, and I actually know some more. The Polish people who came into those territories after 1945 were expatriates themselves, having been forced to leave what had formerly been Eastern Poland and what was then annexed by the Soviet Union. So I think it would be absolutely wrong to blame anything on them. They were just as much wronged as the Germans were. You said it, the only winner in this was Stalin?s Russia! This was all very sad indeed. Moreover, I must say I am strongly against those movements who claim those territories "back". It's true, a grave injustice had been done to those Germans who had to leave their homes. But that was almost 60 years ago, and they have long since found new homes elsewhere - their children and grandchildren have never even lived in those territories! Besides, the injustice they had to suffer can never be undone, especially not by doing an even worse injustice to the Polish people who have been born and living in those territories in the last 50 + years. I actually wonder what those people have in their heads! Quite apart from the fact that, if you go even further back in history, those territories had been Polish already before they were annexed by Prussia in the 18th century (partly earlier). Now that Poland is about to join the EU, I think those old stories shouldn't play such an important role anymore. After all that, I really wonder why my dictionary merely translates "ziomek" as "Landsmann" (in English, countryman or compatriot). That was what I wanted to say! My dictionary doesn?t seem to be always quite accurate, is it?
-
Dear Pepper I'm so glad we share the same opinion about our countries' history. Now something that may really surprise you: I myself come from former East Germany I was born in the town of Słubice upon the river Oder, which used to be a quarter of Frankfurt upon Oder before 1945. As a child I went to Frankfurt at least once a month. Then we moved to a little place near Łęknica which in turn used to be part of Bad Muskau uopn the river Neisse before 1945. I have vivid memories of Cottbus, Weisswaser, and Bad Muskau. My grandparents arrived in Łęknica in the early 60's, and my grandmother still lives there. Last time I was in Bad Muskau and Weisswaser was last year. My mother's late brother lived in Zgorzelec which in turn used to be part of Gorlitz upon Neisse My mother was born in 1946 in Bogatynia, a little town near a place where the three borders of the then Czechoslovakia, Poland and Deutsche Demokratische Republic come together. You may not like it, but in Poland the former East Germany is called "Ziemie Odzyskane" (The Regained Territory). As you said yourself in your last post Prussia annexed the territory before the 18th century. I was born in Ziemie Odzyskane, most of my family live/lived there, and so I'm strongly attached to the land. In fact I love it so much I 'd like to move there back when I retire, maybe My mother's father and mother's roots are in near Kalisz in the province of Wielkopolska (Greater Poland). The capital city of Wielkopolska is Poznań, where I now live. Poznań is mere 170 km east of the Polish-German border. In the 10th century Poznań and its province was the cradle of Poland's entity. It's here where Poland began as a modern country. Poland's first historic ruler, Mieszko the first, received christianity for himself and the country in 966 from the Pope of Rome. In this way Poland assumed the Latin alphabet, and the western culture. In this way, we and the Czech people are very different from other Slavic tribes such as the Russians, the Ukrainians who are more tightly connected with the Orient. with all its advantages and (prevailingly) disadvantages. Poland's historic provinces are: Wielkopolska (Greater Poland) with Poznań, Małopolska (Little Poland) with Kraków, Mazowsze (Mazovia) with Warszawa, Pomorze (Pomerania) with Gdańsk, Warmia i Mazury (former East Prussia) with Elbląg and Olsztyn, Górny Śląsk (Upper Silesia) with Katowice, Dolny Śląsk (Lower Silesia) with Wrocław ok... I think that's it for today
-
Hi Paweł! Sorry for taking so long to respond. My first name is Christoph, by the way. That's pretty interesting that you come from that region yourself. Now here's something that might surprise you : Last year I went on a bus trip for a week where we visited the Northern part of that region! (Unfortunately, we did not go to the South - as you may imagine, given my step-grandfather's origins, I would have loved to visit Wrocław / Breslau, but you can't have everything, can you? ) Anyway, since we went via Frankfurt/Oder to pass the border, the first Polish town we passed must well have been Słubice! We then took the following route (and please allow me to use the German place-names alongside the Polish ones Gorzów Wielkopolski / Landsberg/Warthe Gdańsk / Danzig (including a great organ concert in the Cathedral of Oliwa / Oliva and a trip to the East Sea strand in Sopot / Zoppot) Małbork / Marienburg - a really impressive medieval castle! Olsztyn / Allenstein Frombork / Frauenburg - visiting mainly the cathedral where Nikolaus Copernicus (Mikołaj Kopernik) worked Elbląg / Elbing Święta Lipka / Heilige Linde (another great organ concert! ) Gyżicko / Lötzen Kętrzyn / Rastenburg (mainly visiting the "Wolfsschanze") back to Olsztyn / Allenstein Toruń / Thorn (Copernicus' birthplace) back to Gorzów Wielkopolski / Landsberg/Warthe, then back home That was one of the most interesting trips I ever had! And I really hope to make it to the Southern part some time as well!
-
Hi Christoph! I happen to have been to Malbork / Marienburg in February this year! I also went to Gdańsk-Sopot-Gdynia ("Trójmiasto") on the same trip. But it wasn't my first time in Gdańsk. Of all the places you mentioned I haven't been to Frombork and Elbląg. I can remember my visit to Kętrzyn, and 'admiring' the Wolfsschanze! I am very interested in the history of WW2, and I always watch TV programmes and read books about 3 Reich, and Hitler breathless! Giżycko is the capital of Polish yachting, it's a beautiful place indeed What about some Polish for a change? Spośród polskich krain zapomniałem ostatnio wspomnieć o Kujawach (Kujawy), których stolicami są dwa konkurujące miasta: Bydgoszcz (Bromberg) i Toruń. Kujawy były na początku związane z Wielkopolską ale później, gdy zostały podbite przez Krzyżaków z Malborka (German Tutonic Knights of the Order of Saint Mary in Marienburg), zaczęły ciążyć ku Pomorzu. Teraz Kujawy to osobne województwo. Christoph, czy mógłbyś opowiedzieć w kilku słowach o landach Niemieckich i o Mannheim? mfG Pawel
-
Breathless indeed, Paweł - I have read many books about the 3rd Reich as well, and I always ask myself, how were these people able to fool a whole nation, and even more than that? Opowiedzieć w kilku słowach o landach Niemieckich i o Mannheim - to trudno, ale będę próbować, ale później!
-
Sergeant Pepper:
Opowiedzieć w kilku słowach o landach Niemieckich i o Mannheim - to trudno, ale będę próbować, ale później!
trzymam Cię za słowo By the way, it's time you learnt some useful Polish idiomatic expressions: Rzucić okiem - to take a glance Być zakochanym po uszy - to be head over heels in love Gadać od rzeczy - to speak rubbish Spaść z byka / księżyca - to be unknowing, and appear foolish Pluć sobie w twarz - to blame oneself for having done smth stupid Wytrąbić (napój, herbatę, sok etc) - drink smth quickly as if in great thirst Walić głową w mur - to fight a losing battle Do you want more? And back to Hitler; not long ago I heard Germany achieved its full militaristic and economic potential around 1942! I always thought The Third Reich was the strongest in ca 1939 It seems that attacking Russia in 1941 was Hitler's worst mistake - he should've waited another year : But then I learnt Hitler was diagnosed with parkinson in ca 1940, and there's a reasoning that he wanted to conquer the world before he might die (parkinson was incurable at that time - a diagnosis like that was a death sentence!). Maybe that's why he was in such a hurry and when Rommel was fighting in Africa, Hitler weakened his Afrika Korps in order to help the Italians against Yugoslavia. In this way Rommel wasn't strong enough to beat the Allies and secure the Middle East oil-fields for the German industry. I now consider these two the biggest mistakes of the "painter". What do you think?
-
I don't know about his biggest, but these were definitely decisive ones. I'm actually glad he made them - imagine what the world might be like if Hitler's Germany had won the war! I don't really know how to start off talking about the German Länder in Polish... All I could say are their names and those of their capitals, and there's not much Polish in that...
-
Sergeant Pepper:
I don't know about his biggest, but these were definitely decisive ones. I'm actually glad he made them - imagine what the world might be like if Hitler's Germany had won the war! I don't really know how to start off talking about the German Länder in Polish... All I could say are their names and those of their capitals, and there's not much Polish in that...
OK, I can tell you the Polish names of German places: Munchen (excuse me, I can't use the umlauts ) - Monachium Bremen - Brema Aachen - Akwizgran Koln - Kolonia Lubeck - Lubeka Dresden - Drezno Cottbus - Chociebuż Leipzig - Lipsk Potsdam - Poczdam Sachsen - Saksonia Bayern - Bawaria
-
What's wrong with the following (spelling, grammar, wrong word order, etc) 1. Anna mósi już iść. 2. Janek nie odrobił zadanie domowe. 3. Kto chcą loda? 4. Kasia chora jest dzisiaj. 5. Zaczekał na mnie! 6. Pószczaj! To moje! 7. Dziś jadę do Berlinu. 8. Lubię niemiecku muzykę. 9. Gdzie jest moje pieniądze? 10. Poznań lerzy nad żeką Wartą. :
-
1. Anna mósi już iść. Anna może już iść. 2. Janek nie odrobił zadanie domowe. 3. Kto chcą loda? Kto chce lodów? 4. Kasia chora jest dzisiaj. Kasia chora jest dzisiejsza. 5. Zaczekał na mnie! Zaczekaj na mnie! 6. Pószczaj! To moje! 7. Dziś jadę do Berlinu. Dziś jadę do Berlina. 8. Lubię niemiecku muzykę. Lubię niemieckich muzykę. 9. Gdzie jest moje pieniądze? Gdzie jest mój pieniądz? 10. Poznań lerzy nad żeką Wartą. Poznań lerzy nad rzeką Wartą.
-
Sergeant Pepper:
1. Anna mósi już iść. Anna może już iść. musi 2. Janek nie odrobił zadanie domowe. zadania domowego 3. Kto chcą loda? Kto chce lodów? chce loda 4. Kasia chora jest dzisiaj. Kasia chora jest dzisiejsza. jest dzisiaj chora. 5. Zaczekał na mnie! Zaczekaj na mnie! OK 6. Pószczaj! To moje! puszczaj, to moje! 7. Dziś jadę do Berlinu. Dziś jadę do Berlina. 8. Lubię niemiecku muzykę. Lubię niemieckich muzykę. niemiecką muzykę 9. Gdzie jest moje pieniądze? Gdzie jest mój pieniądz? są moje pieniądze 10. Poznań lerzy nad żeką Wartą. Poznań lerzy nad rzeką Wartą. leży nad rzeką
-
I got only two sentences right then? Those many forms... My dictionary says "pieniądz" is money in the singular and "pieniądze" in the plural, so aren't both forms correct? The last sentence was a bit tricky... And the words where you changed u to ó - now I know why I couldn't find them anywhere in the dictionary!
-
Sergeant Pepper:
I got only two sentences right then? Those many forms... My dictionary says "pieniądz" is money in the singular and "pieniądze" in the plural, so aren't both forms correct? The last sentence was a bit tricky... And the words where you changed u to ó - now I know why I couldn't find them anywhere in the dictionary!
Pieniądz is rarely used in its singular form, almost never. Sometimes the plural form is used in some economic phrases. Polish spelling isn't as difficult as the Polish grammar, in fact it's quite easy indeed. But you must remember about the following: u = ó (pronounced 'u' as in 'gut') ż = rz (pronounced as the French sound 'g' in 'garaGe') h = ch (pronounced 'h') also: sz - as the German 'sch' cz - as the German 'tsch' dż - as the English 'g' in 'George' dź - as above, but much softer ś - sound like very soft 'sch' ć - sounds like very soft 'tsch' 'i' softens Polish consonants: Ślimak (a snail), Śnieg (snow), Sikać (to pee) ----> we don't write Śikać, because 'i' softens the 'S' anyway. For your practice read this: Mała Asia chciała ciastko. (Little Joan wanted a cookie) hint: 'mała aśa hćała ćastko' (that's what it sounds like) Na ścianie wisi ciekawy obrazek. (An interesting picture is hanging on the wall) hint: 'na śćanie wiśi ćekawy obrazek' W sierpniu ściemnia się po siódmej (In August it gets dark after seven) hint: 'w śerpniu śćemnia śę po śudmej' As you can see it's quite simple - at least there are some strict and clear rules, and they can be learnt quickly Homework (I'll be back on Monday) One word is missing / There's one word too many in the following examples: 1. Umyłaś? 2. Tak, już idę teraz na kolację. 3. Gdzie położyłaś tamtą jedną książkę? 4. Nie poddawaj tak łatwo! 5. Załóż siebie ten granatowy garnitur. 6. Co do jej powiedziałeś? 7. Jutro ładna pogoda. 8. Znowu zrobiłeś się ten sam bład! 9. Gdzie pojedziemy do w tym roku na wakacje? 10. Już jest koniec tego ćwiczenia.
-
1. Umyłaś? Umyłaś się? 2. Tak, już idę teraz na kolację. Tak, już idę teraz kolację. 3. Gdzie położyłaś tamtą jedną książkę? Gdzie położyłaś się tamtą jedną książkę? 4. Nie poddawaj tak łatwo! Nie poddawaj się tak łatwo! 5. Załóż siebie ten granatowy garnitur. Załóż ten granatowy garnitur. 6. Co do jej powiedziałeś? Co jej powiedziałeś? 7. Jutro ładna pogoda. Jutro będzie ładna pogoda. 8. Znowu zrobiłeś się ten sam bład! Znowu zrobiłeś ten sam bład! 9. Gdzie pojedziemy do w tym roku na wakacje? Gdzie pojedziemy w tym roku na wakacje? 10. Już jest koniec tego ćwiczenia.
Pawel:
ś - sound like very soft 'sch' ć - sounds like very soft 'tsch'
Could you say then that ś sounds more or less like German ch (as in ich, not as in ach!), and ć is like tch (as in Brötchen)? And ł is like English w, or sometimes like German u (making ał sound more or less like au), isn't it?
-
1. Umyłaś? Umyłaś się? 2. Tak, już idę teraz na kolację. Tak, już idę teraz kolację. Tak, już idę na kolację. 3. Gdzie położyłaś tamtą jedną książkę? Gdzie położyłaś się tamtą jedną książkę? Gdzie położyłaś tamtą książkę? 4. Nie poddawaj tak łatwo! Nie poddawaj się tak łatwo! 5. Załóż siebie ten granatowy garnitur. Załóż ten granatowy garnitur. 6. Co do jej powiedziałeś? Co jej powiedziałeś? 7. Jutro ładna pogoda. Jutro będzie ładna pogoda. 8. Znowu zrobiłeś się ten sam błąd! Znowu zrobiłeś ten sam błąd! 9. Gdzie pojedziemy do w tym roku na wakacje? Gdzie pojedziemy w tym roku na wakacje? 10. Już jest koniec tego ćwiczenia. To już (jest) koniec tego ćwiczenia.
Pawel:
ś - sound like very soft 'sch' ć - sounds like very soft 'tsch'
Could you say then that ś sounds more or less like German ch (as in ich, not as in ach!), and ć is like tch (as in Brötchen)? And ł is like English w, or sometimes like German u (making ał sound more or less like au), isn't it? Yes, ś sounds a bit like German ch, and ć like tch Remember, you must say all what you see written, for example Płock (a city in Poland) reads 'pwotsk', and not 'pwok'.
-
Cześć Paweł! Long time no see... Yes, many Germans make that mistake with 'ck' because in our language it represents double k, while in Polish c is always 'ts', so Radecki is 'radetski' and not 'radekki'... This leads to some oddities when Germans whose name has Polish origins actually pronounce it the wrong (German) way themselves... However, I guess this will be the case with all names who originally come from different countries. I see I've made far less mistakes in those sentences this time...