FourFiveSeconds- new collab. with Rihanna, Kanye and Paul
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audi:
Just like Andy Kaufman and Jerry Lawler on Letterman back in the '80s.
Thank you very much!
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"Acts like a douche" but he isn't a douche? Seriously? The guy sits down and works out publicity angles that involve him "acting" like a douche? Who in their right mind would actively present themselves in public in such a demeaning way if they weren't actually like that anyway? John Lydon IS an offensive creep but he's always used that to his advantage to garner publicity but ramping it up excessively. West is the same. I agree with the premise that West is a publicity seeker but I believe he is the douchebag everyone thinks he is. He believes the crap he says and he believes his behaviour and actions are perfectly fine. You really think he called up Beck and said on the off chance you win, how about I get up on stage, interrupt your acceptance speech and then diss you in the press after the show, to which Beck agrees and goes along with it?
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favoritething:
Beck wins Album Of The Year, and Kanye is near the stage, so he does that little fake-out like he's going to jump onstage again, but then jumps off smiling, obviously joking. But then backstage, he's bombarded by press saying, "What the hell were you thinking?" So his egotistical instincts kick in, and he feels he has to justify it with his rant, just because it's his persona to be like that. The media amplify the "controversy" out of all proportion, as they always do, and here we are. Could I be wrong? Maybe, but it seems like the simplest explanation to me.
That's my take as well. parlance
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audi:
yankeefan7:
audi:
Lordy. Was "Bruce M." the ONLY person who concurred my assessment that nearly every douchey thing that Kanye West does is pu-bli-ci-ty??? Kanye West is not a douche; he ACTS like a douche -- because newspapers cover it, and the masses talk about it at the water-coolers.
So if you want publicity you act like a jerk and ruin other peoples moment of glory. Let's see his reaction if somebody did the same thing if Beyonce won award. What the heck, it is OK because they are seeking publicity. IMO - there are other ways to get publicity besides ruining other peoples moment in the sun !!
What I'm suggesting is that they are ALL in on the joke.
Exactly. And that does not sound to me like an endorsement, but perhaps a statement that it's not nearly as big a deal as some are making it out to be. I still like the song.
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Well, for just a moment I will try to move away from my distaste of Kanye and the fact that I don't believe anyone has said anything that equates to racism when it comes to a dislike for Mr. K.... and I think it is unfair to cite that as a justification for anyone disliking the man. It's all to do with his idiocy (and many another descriptive that fits the bill).... but, as I said, for just a moment I will move away from my personal opinions of the man. So, back to the song.... I gave it a C+.... and after another couple of listenings I am not moving much further from that.... it's pleasant. It's not growing on me. It doesn't have enough layers. It lacks thirty seconds of going off in a different direction before bringing it back to its staple verse. It's average. Otherwise, I think it's all been healthy debate.
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Just a question about the lyrics: What does 'whiling' means? I tried to find a translation, but couldn't find it...
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The Eggman67:
Just a question about the lyrics: What does 'whiling' means? I tried to find a translation, but couldn't find it...
Wildin' - "to go crazy, to do something extreme"
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RockyRaccoon68:
The Eggman67:
Just a question about the lyrics: What does 'whiling' means? I tried to find a translation, but couldn't find it...
Wildin' - "to go crazy, to do something extreme"
Thanks!
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graystoke:
"Acts like a douche" but he isn't a douche? Seriously? The guy sits down and works out publicity angles that involve him "acting" like a douche? Who in their right mind would actively present themselves in public in such a demeaning way if they weren't actually like that anyway? John Lydon IS an offensive creep but he's always used that to his advantage to garner publicity but ramping it up excessively. West is the same. I agree with the premise that West is a publicity seeker but I believe he is the douchebag everyone thinks he is. He believes the crap he says and he believes his behaviour and actions are perfectly fine. You really think he called up Beck and said on the off chance you win, how about I get up on stage, interrupt your acceptance speech and then diss you in the press after the show, to which Beck agrees and goes along with it?
"You really think he called up Beck and said on the off chance you win, how about I get up on stage, interrupt your acceptance speech and then diss you in the press after the show, to which Beck agrees and goes along with it?" Exactly. Sure, everyone who wins the Grammy for album of the year wants to share the spotlight of this possibly once in a lifetime moment with Kanye so he can get more publicity - lol. BTW - Just like teenage Taylor Swift was in on the joke - yeah right. She look petrified when that happened.
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toris:
Well, for just a moment I will try to move away from my distaste of Kanye and the fact that I don't believe anyone has said anything that equates to racism when it comes to a dislike for Mr. K.... and I think it is unfair to cite that as a justification for anyone disliking the man. It's all to do with his idiocy (and many another descriptive that fits the bill).... but, as I said, for just a moment I will move away from my personal opinions of the man. So, back to the song.... I gave it a C+.... and after another couple of listenings I am not moving much further from that.... it's pleasant. It's not growing on me. It doesn't have enough layers. It lacks thirty seconds of going off in a different direction before bringing it back to its staple verse. It's average. Otherwise, I think it's all been healthy debate.
"I gave it a C+.... and after another couple of listenings I am not moving much further from that.... it's pleasant. It's not growing on me. It doesn't have enough layers. It lacks thirty seconds of going off in a different direction before bringing it back to its staple verse. It's average" I agree, it is decent song but not anything more IMO.
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toris:
Well, for just a moment I will try to move away from my distaste of Kanye and the fact that I don't believe anyone has said anything that equates to racism when it comes to a dislike for Mr. K.... and I think it is unfair to cite that as a justification for anyone disliking the man. [...] Otherwise, I think it's all been healthy debate.
Some of it has been healthy. Much of it has been caustic. And just so the point doesn't get lost, I repeat that it's the kneejerk dismissal of Kanye's talent without familiarity of his actual music as well as the inference that Paul shouldn't stoop so low to work with hiphop artists that carries the stench of prejudice. And that isn't the same as having a distaste for his antics. parlance
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If someone can post just one example here that shows West has any talent, I might change my opinion. Thus far, I am not convinced. He is a media machine, but that does not equate to having real musical talent. Madonna knows how to play the media. She can also dance her ass off, carry a tune, and her songs show she can collaborate and write. I recognize her stamp on her songs. One example.
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RMartinez:
If someone can post just one example here that shows West has any talent, I might change my opinion. Thus far, I am not convinced.
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about. You're equating your personal opinion with his talent. You keep asking for examples to prove Kanye's worthiness, but have you listened to his albums? Or even tried to do the basic Wikipedia research to learn more about what he's done? You have no idea how laughable the idea that Kanye West has no talent is to the rest of the world that's even vaguely familiar with his work. As I've already said, his music has been a game-changer and has influenced both hip hop and pop artists alike. For all you know Paul wanted to work with him because he's been an influence on his more recent music. parlance
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parlance:
RMartinez:
If someone can post just one example here that shows West has any talent, I might change my opinion. Thus far, I am not convinced.
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about. You're equating your personal opinion with his talent. You keep asking for examples to prove Kanye's worthiness, but have you listened to his albums? Or even tried to do the basic Wikipedia research to learn more about what he's done? You have no idea how laughable the idea that Kanye West has no talent is to the rest of the world that's even vaguely familiar with his work. As I've already said, his music has been a game-changer and has influenced both hip hop and pop artists alike. For all you know Paul wanted to work with him because he's been an influence on his more recent music. parlance
Parlance, I'll give you this. I have gone to youtube and listened to some of West's product. He is talented, I guess, in the medium he creates in, ie Hip Hop. But thus far, I have yet to hear anything that suggests he has any talent in the traditional sense. Now, to be fair, I don't know that McCartney could make a viable Hip Hop CD or song on his own. There are certain cultural attributes necessary to creating that vibe. Eminem has been successful. Even Vanilla Ice hit the charts in that genre. So, I will give you that. West is a force in Hip Hop. But not in the wider musical world of writing melodies and lyrics that are timeless. And that might very well be on the way out, or cast aside as an anachronism of days gone by. So be it. West's sounds are for a culture that lives in the moment, a nihilistic society that gives no value to what might be in twenty or fifty years. That's cool. I'm glad I was young when I was, and grew up on the music of my day. As one FB post said "No, I'm not old. Your music really does suck!"
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RMartinez:
If someone can post just one example here that shows West has any talent, I might change my opinion. Thus far, I am not convinced. He is a media machine, but that does not equate to having real musical talent. Madonna knows how to play the media. She can also dance her ass off, carry a tune, and her songs show she can collaborate and write. I recognize her stamp on her songs. One example.
As I have said in this thread before, I am not a fan of hip hop/rap etc so I will leave other people to judge Kanye's talent. The two recent collaborations I have heard of not impressed me but it is only two songs. I guess when I think of greatness it is someone like Mr. McCartney who not only wrote hundreds of great songs, has an incredible voice, plays numerous musical instruments and is one of the best bass players in rock history.
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RMartinez:
parlance:
RMartinez:
If someone can post just one example here that shows West has any talent, I might change my opinion. Thus far, I am not convinced.
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about. You're equating your personal opinion with his talent. You keep asking for examples to prove Kanye's worthiness, but have you listened to his albums? Or even tried to do the basic Wikipedia research to learn more about what he's done? You have no idea how laughable the idea that Kanye West has no talent is to the rest of the world that's even vaguely familiar with his work. As I've already said, his music has been a game-changer and has influenced both hip hop and pop artists alike. For all you know Paul wanted to work with him because he's been an influence on his more recent music. parlance
Parlance, I'll give you this. I have gone to youtube and listened to some of West's product. He is talented, I guess, in the medium he creates in, ie Hip Hop. But thus far, I have yet to hear anything that suggests he has any talent in the traditional sense. Now, to be fair, I don't know that McCartney could make a viable Hip Hop CD or song on his own. There are certain cultural attributes necessary to creating that vibe. Eminem has been successful. Even Vanilla Ice hit the charts in that genre. So, I will give you that. West is a force in Hip Hop. But not in the wider musical world of writing melodies and lyrics that are timeless. And that might very well be on the way out, or cast aside as an anachronism of days gone by. So be it. West's sounds are for a culture that lives in the moment, a nihilistic society that gives no value to what might be in twenty or fifty years. That's cool. I'm glad I was young when I was, and grew up on the music of my day. As one FB post said "No, I'm not old. Your music really does suck!"
The thing is that most respected music critics have accepted hip-hop as a legitimate form of music. There's also plenty of rock music that doesn't rely on melody but is still considered timeless, and there's plenty of classical and jazz, etc. without lyrics. No one says you have to like hip-hop, or Kanye's music in particular, but it's legitimate all the same, and the form has already endured for decades.
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RMartinez:
If someone can post just one example here that shows West has any talent, I might change my opinion. Thus far, I am not convinced. He is a media machine, but that does not equate to having real musical talent. Madonna knows how to play the media. She can also dance her ass off, carry a tune, and her songs show she can collaborate and write. I recognize her stamp on her songs. One example.
http://www.allmusic.com/artist/kanye-west-mn0000361014/discography Allmusic has very respected and fair reviews. They dont just give out 5 & 4.5 reviews. Your musical taste is one thing, but you wont win an argument that Kanye has no musical talent - because you would be wrong.
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JoeySmith:
RMartinez:
If someone can post just one example here that shows West has any talent, I might change my opinion. Thus far, I am not convinced. He is a media machine, but that does not equate to having real musical talent. Madonna knows how to play the media. She can also dance her ass off, carry a tune, and her songs show she can collaborate and write. I recognize her stamp on her songs. One example.
http://www.allmusic.com/artist/kanye-west-mn0000361014/discography Allmusic has very respected and fair reviews. They dont just give out 5 & 4.5 reviews. Your musical taste is one thing, but you wont win an argument that Kanye has no musical talent - because you would be wrong.
Yes, 808s and Heartbreak has been his only real stumble. That was the one where he sang a lot. Uh-oh? Otherwise, an impressive run of critical acclaim.
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favoritething:
RMartinez:
parlance:
RMartinez:
If someone can post just one example here that shows West has any talent, I might change my opinion. Thus far, I am not convinced.
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about. You're equating your personal opinion with his talent. You keep asking for examples to prove Kanye's worthiness, but have you listened to his albums? Or even tried to do the basic Wikipedia research to learn more about what he's done? You have no idea how laughable the idea that Kanye West has no talent is to the rest of the world that's even vaguely familiar with his work. As I've already said, his music has been a game-changer and has influenced both hip hop and pop artists alike. For all you know Paul wanted to work with him because he's been an influence on his more recent music. parlance
Parlance, I'll give you this. I have gone to youtube and listened to some of West's product. He is talented, I guess, in the medium he creates in, ie Hip Hop. But thus far, I have yet to hear anything that suggests he has any talent in the traditional sense. Now, to be fair, I don't know that McCartney could make a viable Hip Hop CD or song on his own. There are certain cultural attributes necessary to creating that vibe. Eminem has been successful. Even Vanilla Ice hit the charts in that genre. So, I will give you that. West is a force in Hip Hop. But not in the wider musical world of writing melodies and lyrics that are timeless. And that might very well be on the way out, or cast aside as an anachronism of days gone by. So be it. West's sounds are for a culture that lives in the moment, a nihilistic society that gives no value to what might be in twenty or fifty years. That's cool. I'm glad I was young when I was, and grew up on the music of my day. As one FB post said "No, I'm not old. Your music really does suck!"
The thing is that most respected music critics have accepted hip-hop as a legitimate form of music. There's also plenty of rock music that doesn't rely on melody but is still considered timeless, and there's plenty of classical and jazz, etc. without lyrics. No one says you have to like hip-hop, or Kanye's music in particular, but it's legitimate all the same, and the form has already endured for decades.
Cool. You spend your money on it. Not one cent of mine is going in that direction. Even with Paul's name on it.
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RMartinez:
Parlance, I'll give you this. I have gone to youtube and listened to some of West's product. He is talented, I guess, in the medium he creates in, ie Hip Hop. But thus far, I have yet to hear anything that suggests he has any talent in the traditional sense.
That's good you gave it a try, but that means you don't need examples of his talent. If it's not for you, it's not for you. But how are you defining phrases like "traditional sense" and "wider musical world" (as if Kanye doesn't exist in it). And "timeless" for whom? You're coding your language to mask preconceived notions. parlance