The ..2012.... Political thread
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Matthew_Montoya:
Kahlessa:
I thought McCain and Obama both did well in the debate. But McCain looked very grumpy. He also wasn't very gracious to Obama, not even looking at him for most of the debate. That will not play well with the independents and undecideds. Omaba may need to go more on the offensive in the next two debates, but his performance reassured many people that he is ready to be president. As one commentator said, McCain may have ended the debate slightly ahead on points, but he needed a knock-out and he didn't do that. With Obama already ahead in the polls, the debate was a win for him because the independents and undecideds have rated him more favorably after this debate than before.
Overall, I felt that McCain started off slow, but picked up steam and ultimately won on the issues, but he missed some golden opportunities at Obama and overall, I'd probably give it to McCain, he did very well. The ironic thing is that I actually found Obama to be the one who was rather grumpy. He kept interrupting McCain, mumbling to himself, and kept trying to moderate the debate himself. I found him to be totally rude and disrespectful and mostly flustered and on the defensive, whereas I thought McCain was rather calm throughout the whole thing... a trait that I did not see in the other Senator.
Matthew, I don't think we were watching the same debate! Notice that Obama gave credit to McCain several times, but McCain can't bring himself to do the same. Worst case scenario: if McCain gets elected, we'll probably have the fun of watching him deal with a Democratic Congress. If McCain does become President, I will pray for his continued good health for every single day of his administration. Notice how McCain is critical of Obama's experience, but thinks Palin is just fine. Talk about your cognitive dissonance. :
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agreed....McCain did not acknowledge Obama at all. McCain needed to blow him out of the water and that didn't happen. After all, if foreign policy is McCain's area and he only did "well", that should tell voters something right there. After watching Palin's painful interview with Couric, she should stay in Alaska and wave to Vladimir every now and then.
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I didn't see the interview Not sure if I'm in a hurry As for me, I'm not discounting the Palin effect on the Nation & the election. She relates better than any of the candidates to women, not just hockey moms, also to military moms (read on): Sunday, September 28, 2008 Palin talks with military moms at Philly shop By PATRICK WALTERS Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin met Sunday with a group of military mothers at a downtown eatery, the third day of a swing through this Democratic stronghold. The Alaska governor, along with her 14-year-old daughter, Willow, spent about 45 minutes sipping a skinny white chocolate mocha and talking privately with four women whose children are serving in the military overseas. Palin's son, Track, 19, is deploying for service in Iraq. As they sat at a table at Di Bruno Bros. gourmet food shop, one of the women, Julie Devitt, got a call from her son, Glen, who deployed to Iraq with the Army in December. She handed the phone to Palin, who spoke with the sergeant briefly. for complete article: http://townhall.com/news/politics-elections/2008/09/28/palin_talks_with_military_moms_at_philly_shop
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Obama keeps saying "he's the one for new challenges that will face the world"...even John Kerry reiterated that sentiment to Chris Wallace a few minutes ago. But as we have seen with the Russia/Georgia conflict, old challenges present very difficult decisions, and Obama prove to be unable to meet that challenge. John McCain will! Summary: That is not a new challenge but a very old one. Perhaps this is not a time for a novice spouting grand rhetoric about a new page in history, but for someone who's actually read the pages of some old, but still relevant, books. Perhaps this is not the time for playacting. The geopolitical significance of Russia's invasion of Georgia at this stage is hard to gauge. Prime Minister Vladimir Putin may not wish to revive the Soviet Union or the Cold War, but he clearly seeks to restore Russia's imperial stature. And Item One on that agenda is to crush Georgia's independence and smother hopes for NATO's expansion to Russia's "near abroad." The campaign significance for Obama is easier to calculate. He has been playacting at being presidential in order to convince voters that we live in a "new moment" with "new challenges" -- and that he is the president we need for this new era. This moment calls for more than playacting, yet Obama looks lost without a presidential script. Events in the Caucasus -- and, for that matter, in Beijing -- suggest that the times aren't so new after all. Two powerful antidemocratic foes are once again flexing their muscles at a moment when America seems weak and distracted. http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-goldberg12-2008aug12,0,4691168.column
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OBL is/was a poor little rich kid who should have spent his rich family allowance on helping his several thousand fellow countrymen's families (who were reeling from a natural disaster) to acquire physical, educational and spiritual relief ...and when we were pressured to respond......."WE DID THE SAME" ...we have an enemy alright!........but, it is not...each other
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Andy_Shofar:
Obama keeps saying "he's the one for new challenges that will face the world"...even John Kerry reiterated that sentiment to Chris Wallace a few minutes ago. But as we have seen with the Russia/Georgia conflict, old challenges present very difficult decisions, and Obama prove to be unable to meet that challenge. John McCain will! Summary: That is not a new challenge but a very old one. Perhaps this is not a time for a novice spouting grand rhetoric about a new page in history, but for someone who's actually read the pages of some old, but still relevant, books. Perhaps this is not the time for playacting. The geopolitical significance of Russia's invasion of Georgia at this stage is hard to gauge. Prime Minister Vladimir Putin may not wish to revive the Soviet Union or the Cold War, but he clearly seeks to restore Russia's imperial stature. And Item One on that agenda is to crush Georgia's independence and smother hopes for NATO's expansion to Russia's "near abroad." The campaign significance for Obama is easier to calculate. He has been playacting at being presidential in order to convince voters that we live in a "new moment" with "new challenges" -- and that he is the president we need for this new era. This moment calls for more than playacting, yet Obama looks lost without a presidential script. Events in the Caucasus -- and, for that matter, in Beijing -- suggest that the times aren't so new after all. Two powerful antidemocratic foes are once again flexing their muscles at a moment when America seems weak and distracted. http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-goldberg12-2008aug12,0,4691168.column
McCain is absolutely the wrong person to deal with Russia. He still has too much of a Cold Warrior mentality. Others with extensive foreign policy experience agree: McCain's Reckless Response to Russia -- So Says Everybody
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Here's an excellent essay on McCain's foreign policy: McCain vs. McCain He seems to think he can magically unite the two main strands in the foreign-policy establishment. He can't. By Fareed Zakaria, Newsweek, May 5, 2008 http://www.fareedzakaria.com/articles/newsweek/050508.html
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Kahlessa:
Here's an excellent essay on McCain's foreign policy: McCain vs. McCain He seems to think he can magically unite the two main strands in the foreign-policy establishment. He can't. By Fareed Zakaria, Newsweek, May 5, 2008 http://www.fareedzakaria.com/articles/newsweek/050508.html
McCan't
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Matthew_Montoya:
Kahlessa:
I thought McCain and Obama both did well in the debate. But McCain looked very grumpy. He also wasn't very gracious to Obama, not even looking at him for most of the debate. That will not play well with the independents and undecideds. Omaba may need to go more on the offensive in the next two debates, but his performance reassured many people that he is ready to be president. As one commentator said, McCain may have ended the debate slightly ahead on points, but he needed a knock-out and he didn't do that. With Obama already ahead in the polls, the debate was a win for him because the independents and undecideds have rated him more favorably after this debate than before.
Overall, I felt that McCain started off slow, but picked up steam and ultimately won on the issues, but he missed some golden opportunities at Obama and overall, I'd probably give it to McCain, he did very well. The ironic thing is that I actually found Obama to be the one who was rather grumpy. He kept interrupting McCain, mumbling to himself, and kept trying to moderate the debate himself. I found him to be totally rude and disrespectful and mostly flustered and on the defensive, whereas I thought McCain was rather calm throughout the whole thing... a trait that I did not see in the other Senator.
this is because Mccain was lying and Obama wanted to point this out and the moderator allowed McCain to continue his rederick. McCain is a hot head and this is well documented. Some have suggested that McCain is taking drugs to surpress his anger issues.
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Tabloid finally brings up McCain?s wife drug abuse issues. Does anyone have the article from the past where she either stole drugs at a Washington party medicine cabinet or from some charity she was involved with? There was a thief and drugs were involved. At the time she was really strung out and I think the family had her doctors cut her off and she was desperate. But she looks good in a little pink dress today. : roll Should character of the whole family be judged when voting a leader in. Does the wife reflect on the country?
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appletart2:
Tabloid finally brings up McCain?s wife drug abuse issues. Does anyone have the article from the past where she either stole drugs at a Washington party medicine cabinet or from some charity she was involved with? There was a thief and drugs were involved. At the time she was really strung out and I think the family had her doctors cut her off and she was desperate. But she looks good in a little pink dress today. : roll Should character of the whole family be judged when voting a leader in. Does the wife reflect on the country?
I think you can make a case against McCain without resorting to tabloids and rumors. Attacking the family drags the whole election down, to the detriment of all.
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its not rumors I remember this story way back when. It was a cover up. I agree if the family member is a distant member involved in something illegal it should not be brought up but we're talking 1ST lady and someone with a drug addiction in there past. A morphine addiction which we know never goes away and if they slip up, and start using again, there right back addicted and only rehab or cold turkey gets them off. Should you be electing a leader who could have a wife who could be a security risk. What if she starts abusing again? What power she would hold over McCain and or others over him. I think it amazing the press knowing these issues are there are not reporting on it. Wasn't this the same why Bush got elected? If this was Kerry or Obama wife it would be on the table. We not talking abusing drugs for recreation we're talking getting addicted to drugs. That shows a dependency from long term use. Show the McCain's for what they are and its hardly a family that is all american and or consistent with their voting neo con religious base.
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The fact that there's a decent chance Sarah Palin could become president if McCain is elected (lets face it - he's old) scares the living hell out of me. Sometimes I have to ask myself if this is even real or just a bad nightmare... I honestly cannot understand how McCain's selection of Palin didn't completely demolish his chances? People are willing to take a risk of this magnitude when our country is in such a fragile condition? I'm just surprised by my fellow citizens... We'll see if she can redeem herself tonight at the debate, but she's got quite a mountain to climb.
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Kahlessa:
Matthew, I don't think we were watching the same debate! Notice that Obama gave credit to McCain several times, but McCain can't bring himself to do the same.
Since your other stuff from the post dealt with policy rather than debate performance, I'll just quote this. You see, this is what I don't understand. Yes, Obama did say, and on more than one occasion, that he agreed with McCain. O.K., that's nice and all, but logically speaking, if Obama agrees with McCain, then McCain agrees with Obama. I fail to see why Obama should get brownie points for just merely saying it out loud, which seems to be the case.
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appletart2:
this is because Mccain was lying and Obama wanted to point this out and the moderator allowed McCain to continue his rederick. McCain is a hot head and this is well documented. Some have suggested that McCain is taking drugs to surpress his anger issues.
And if Obama wants to attempt to refute those claims, then he should wait until McCain's time is finished and then speak when it's his turn (which he will get) rather than interrupt his opponent. It's a moderated debate; by definition and by the terms typically agreed on, both sides will get their chance to make their argument and then refute the others. To constantly interrupt the opponent and try to play moderator is just very poor etiquette. This is where I think I get confused when I read that McCain came off as grumpy, etc. and I wonder if, for some (not all), that is more based on the reputation he's developed (rightly or wrongly) in the past more so than how he actually performed, last week. For as much of a hot head that people claim McCain comes off to be (and he's had his moments, certainly), he never did that once during the debate, nor mumble to himself and come off incredibly flustered (or forget the name on his bracelet, but that's another issue)... all qualities I saw in Obama. As for your claims, what's your point? I could pay a group of guys on my block right now and tell them: "Hey, I want you to read this sentence that I wrote suggesting that Barack Obama relieves tension and stage fright before giving a speech by having sex with a sheep." Then I can come on here and say: "Well, appletart, some have suggested that Barack Obama deals with intense stage fright, by practicing beastality prior to his debates." My point? Until you can actually credibly source (highly strong emphasis on the term: credibly) this accusation, your claim is meaningless and comes off as sensationalistic, at best.
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Matthew_Montoya:
Kahlessa:
Matthew, I don't think we were watching the same debate! Notice that Obama gave credit to McCain several times, but McCain can't bring himself to do the same.
Since your other stuff from the post dealt with policy rather than debate performance, I'll just quote this. You see, this is what I don't understand. Yes, Obama did say, and on more than one occasion, that he agreed with McCain. O.K., that's nice and all, but logically speaking, if Obama agrees with McCain, then McCain agrees with Obama. I fail to see why Obama should get brownie points for just merely saying it out loud, which seems to be the case.
I'd call it respecting and acknowledging their point of view...which McCain didn't bother to return. Debating isn't merely beating up your opponent or trying to outdo them verbally.....it's point, counterpoint....which is what Obama did, concede the point by agreeing with it, then counterpointing.
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a white male conservative moderator a white male republican candidate a white and black democratic candidate you should do your "math" i think shakira and lisa ling should have co- moderated it!
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Matthew_Montoya:
{snip} I could pay a group of guys on my block right now and tell them: "Hey, I want you to read this sentence that I wrote suggesting that Barack Obama relieves tension and stage fright before giving a speech by having sex with a sheep."
hey hey, don't knock sex with a sheep until you tried it. It's not as b-a-a-a-d as you think.
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And the endorsements begin...from The New Yorker entitled "The Choice" very thorough thoughtful article: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/10/13/081013taco_talk_editors compares Obama to Lincoln
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Mikemc:
Matthew_Montoya:
{snip} I could pay a group of guys on my block right now and tell them: "Hey, I want you to read this sentence that I wrote suggesting that Barack Obama relieves tension and stage fright before giving a speech by having sex with a sheep."
hey hey, don't knock sex with a sheep until you tried it. It's not as b-a-a-a-d as you think.
GROSS!!!