In defense of "Ebony and Ivory"
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Okay, tastes vary. I get that. There are songs that regular posters here love that make me cringe, and if a song just hits you the wrong way, no argument can make you like it. That said, I really don't get the consistent venom that comes out whenever "Ebony and Ivory" is mentioned. To me, it's a nice little song. Not a masterpiece, but a really catchy melody, good harmonies and a nice sentiment. Is the message in the lyrics a bit simplistic? Sure, but that's hardly unusual in pop music. And I don't think "Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony..." is any more simplistic than, say, "Imagine all the people living life in peace," which is regularly treated as an iconic near-masterpiece. No, "Ebony and Ivory" is not one of the Great Works of Popular Culture, but it's a nice little song, done at a time when duets between major black and white artists were damn rare. I'm not ashamed to say I like it.
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The thing about the lyrics is not about their simplicity, not in my opinion. As you say, 'Imagine' has a pretty simple lyrics and is masterpiece. The thing is that they begin as a peace and integration song, but the message get lost in the way. I don't perceive 'Ebony & Ivory' as a truly peace song, despite his great melody and splendid duo with Wonder.
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WingsOfMacca:
The thing about the lyrics is not about their simplicity, not in my opinion. As you say, 'Imagine' has a pretty simple lyrics and is masterpiece. The thing is that they begin as a peace and integration song, but the message get lost in the way. I don't perceive 'Ebony & Ivory' as a truly peace song, despite his great melody and splendid duo with Wonder.
I'm not sure I follow this. The song is about hoping for racial harmony, and the message is quite consistent throughout the (pretty brief) lyrics: Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony Side by side on my piano keyboard, oh Lord, why don't we? We all know that people are the same where ever you go There is good and bad in everyone We learn to live, and we learn to give Each other what we need to survive together alive Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony Side by side on my piano keyboard, oh Lord, why don't we? Ebony, ivory living in perfect harmony Ebony, ivory, ooh We all know that people are the same where ever we go There is good and bad in everyone We learn to live, and we learn to give Each other what we need to survive together alive Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony Side by side on my piano keyboard, oh Lord why don't we
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Bruce M.:
Okay, tastes vary. I get that. There are songs that regular posters here love that make me cringe, and if a song just hits you the wrong way, no argument can make you like it. That said, I really don't get the consistent venom that comes out whenever "Ebony and Ivory" is mentioned. To me, it's a nice little song. Not a masterpiece, but a really catchy melody, good harmonies and a nice sentiment. Is the message in the lyrics a bit simplistic? Sure, but that's hardly unusual in pop music. And I don't think "Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony..." is any more simplistic than, say, "Imagine all the people living life in peace," which is regularly treated as an iconic near-masterpiece. No, "Ebony and Ivory" is not one of the Great Works of Popular Culture, but it's a nice little song, done at a time when duets between major black and white artists were damn rare. I'm not ashamed to say I like it.
I have to agree with you on this one. I think it's a nice song with a memorable tune, and Paul's vocal performance is very good on it too. I'm not really fussed about whether lyrics are complex or simple. Good songs can have either in my opinion.
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I agree, it is not that bad of a song, I can think of a lot worse in Paul's cannon.
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I'm in the camp of liking Ebony and Ivory. In fact, I really like it. Always have. It seems to have depreciated through the years, and I don't know why.
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Good song, catchy tune, and a big hit. Paul and Stevie! "What's wrong with that?"
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Bruce M.:
Okay, tastes vary. I get that. There are songs that regular posters here love that make me cringe, and if a song just hits you the wrong way, no argument can make you like it. That said, I really don't get the consistent venom that comes out whenever "Ebony and Ivory" is mentioned. To me, it's a nice little song. Not a masterpiece, but a really catchy melody, good harmonies and a nice sentiment. Is the message in the lyrics a bit simplistic? Sure, but that's hardly unusual in pop music. And I don't think "Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony..." is any more simplistic than, say, "Imagine all the people living life in peace," which is regularly treated as an iconic near-masterpiece. No, "Ebony and Ivory" is not one of the Great Works of Popular Culture, but it's a nice little song, done at a time when duets between major black and white artists were damn rare. I'm not ashamed to say I like it.
I remember some critics of the song went so far as to say that, in fact, the sounds the white keys on a piano make are NOT in perfect harmony with those of the black keys...at all. I thought at the time, "Are you kidding me? That's your objection to this song?? You're actually critiquing the song for those ridiculous reasons,...even if true?"I remember thinking, "Well, they are side by side. "Some people just wanted to hate the song...and Paul...no matter what, so came up with whatever reasons popped into their heads. Alas, that will be the case if someone wants to dislike a song. Any song. They'll find a reason. Some people didn't like Paul's "Pipes of Peace" because of the "...burn baby burn" lyric that one should not teach to children. Thought it to be too simplistic.
ops: -
I think this is a great song and one of the great duets of the 80s, a decade of (too) many. Using piano keys as a metaphor may seem simple, but you have to come up with it. Many songs have been written before it, but this is the first to do it... If you've heard "Ebony and Ivory" once, the next time you hear it, you recognize it, sooo... In my 'world of music' I'd say it's a masterpiece.
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It is a great pop song. very McCartneyesque - the quality only Paul can do. People have always been jealous of Paul - critics too. It went to #one - it wouldn't have had it not been worth it. Black & white piano keys sit beside each other in "peaceful" harmony to create music is the metaphor. Simple, inspiring, and chock full of musical imagery.
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I like it more now then when it came out, And feel really LUCKY , I got to see it live with Paul And Stevie in LA in 89 .. But I agree with you Bruce
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I found an early 1980 version of "Ebony and Ivory" on youtube, which supposedly is a Wings rehearsal of the song. It sounds a little unfinished and in-the-making perhaps but interesting enough....
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I remember this song being "corny" when it was first released, which usually means a death-knell for its legacy. Why are Imagine & Give Me Love, Peace on Earth considered classics or mini-classics, while E&I is usually mentioned or best known as a parody? E&I has 2 things going against it - trite lyrics regarding a complex topic & cheesy, schmaltzy music with synthesizers no less. The use of piano keys as a metaphor for race relations is sophomoric songwriting to say the least. Race songs tend to be protest songs/hip hop associated. Perhaps if Paul had been more clever/obscure with the lyrics, it could have worked. See Blackbird as a classic example. The music suffers as well. Imagine & Give Me Love were also melodic, but unlike E&I, very understated & creative (slide guitar). E&I is way over the top musically & the whole song comes off as too sickly. Give Ireland Back to the Irish also has trite lyrics, but is saved by a soaring chorus & innovative, rocking music. I could listen to Irish all day, even with the trite lyrics as a result. Bottom-line is I just dont see any redeeming qualities in the song. Easily one of the worst Macca released & its gotten worse over the years.
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Bruce M.:
Okay, tastes vary. I get that. There are songs that regular posters here love that make me cringe, and if a song just hits you the wrong way, no argument can make you like it. That said, I really don't get the consistent venom that comes out whenever "Ebony and Ivory" is mentioned. To me, it's a nice little song. Not a masterpiece, but a really catchy melody, good harmonies and a nice sentiment. Is the message in the lyrics a bit simplistic? Sure, but that's hardly unusual in pop music. And I don't think "Ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony..." is any more simplistic than, say, "Imagine all the people living life in peace," which is regularly treated as an iconic near-masterpiece. No, "Ebony and Ivory" is not one of the Great Works of Popular Culture, but it's a nice little song, done at a time when duets between major black and white artists were damn rare. I'm not ashamed to say I like it.
I agree 100%. It is a catchy song which is the idea of a single isn't it - lol. Song may be "simple" but a plea for racial harmony is not a bad thing. I liked it and it was one of the last #1 hits Mr. McCartney has had.
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One thing that I think worked against it is the massive, saturation airplay it got. I totally understand why the label released it as a single -- the thing's a natural hit, which of course it was -- but it's also the sort of song that can start to wear on you if you hear it ten times a day. For months you couldn't turn on a radio without hearing it, and even I got tired of it for a while.
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I think the song itself is great, but it's the production I don't like. The ploing ploing sounds by the synths are in my opinion very anoying. It's the time era, probably. Loads of fantastic songs (not only Macca's) from the eighties are ruined by crap synthesizers.
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Lots of synth in the 80s. Music, like clothes... comes to a certain degree with fashionable trends. Especially pop music, but also classical music, there is a difference to early piano sound of a harpsichord in Bach's time and the fortepiano when Mozart lived. I love the period sound of Baroque music, it just sounds good to my ears. But I also try to just listen for what it is. On the bright side it becomes interesting, with different periods and sounds and styles you like and enjoy less. I talk to people about music or read online and to some listeners almost everything is dated... They can't listen to anything earlier than last week.
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Hendrix Ibsen:
I talk to people about music or read online and to some listeners almost everything is dated... They can't listen to anything earlier than last week.
Hahaha, you probably talk about my daughter!
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Bruce M.:
One thing that I think worked against it is the massive, saturation airplay it got. I totally understand why the label released it as a single -- the thing's a natural hit, which of course it was -- but it's also the sort of song that can start to wear on you if you hear it ten times a day. For months you couldn't turn on a radio without hearing it, and even I got tired of it for a while.
"For months you couldn't turn on a radio without hearing it, and even I got tired of it for a while." Understood but you could say the same thing about early Beatle singles, they got played to death.
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I love "Ebony and Ivory" despite its 80's synthesizer production touches
