Navigation

    Paul McCartney
    • Register
    • Login
    • Search
    • Categories
    • Recent
    • Tags
    • Popular
    • Users
    • Groups

    A Fuss Over "Eleanor Rigby" Song

    YESTERDAY
    8
    25
    1042
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • SusyLuvsPaul
      SusyLuvsPaul last edited by

      I got embroiled in a minor brouhaha on a Beatles site over the title character sung about in "Eleanor Rigby" a while ago--some guys ludicrously speculated over whether Eleanor was a "pole stripper," and laughed about it, made jokes.  I called them out on it for being possibly sexist and disrespectful towards Eleanor. One poster there implied it's stupid to get upset "over a fictional character in a song" and I replied "well, you're obviously male and don't have the baggage to understand, but you could, if you tried" and he harped on it a bit, putting me down, sort of.  A high-spirited Latino woman jumped on his case, warned he might get blocked.  Perhaps I was a bit uptight and puritanical about it. I didn't like Eleanor Rigby getting talked about as if she were cheap or an exhibtionist or  something, LOL. Maybe I was unreasonable to try to spoil their fun.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
      • SusyLuvsPaul
        SusyLuvsPaul last edited by

        Now there's another debate about "Eleanor Rigby." A fan maintains Paul said he got the idea for the song title from the name of the actress Eleanor Bron and the name of a Liverpool famous family, surname "Rigby." I always read that Paul said he saw the whole name on an very old tombstone in an old Liverpool cemetary. I never read that poster's particular explanation. He keeps swearing his is true.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
        • Nancy R
          Nancy R last edited by

          SusyLuvsPaul wrote:

          Now there's another debate about "Eleanor Rigby." A fan maintains Paul said he got the idea for the song title from the name of the actress Eleanor Bron and the name of a Liverpool famous family, surname "Rigby." I always read that Paul said he saw the whole name on an very old tombstone in an old Liverpool cemetary. I never read that poster's particular explanation. He keeps swearing his is true.

          Paul always said he got Eleanor from Eleanor Bron who was the actress in Help! Rigby he said he saw a shop called Rigby’s. Much later it was discovered that there was actually a gravestone at St. Peter’s with the name Eleanor Rigby on it. (Paul and John met across the road in the church hall)

          https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/eleanor-rigby/

          Omni, Atlanta, GA May 18, 1976, Feb. 17, 1990

          GA Dome, Atlanta, GA May 1, 1993

          Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA May 12, 2002

          FedEx Forum, Memphis, TN May 26, 2013

          Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA Oct. 15, 2014

          Infinite Energy Center, Duluth, GA July 13, 2017

          Bon Secours Arena, Greenville, SC May 30, 2019

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
          • J
            joeysmith2 last edited by

            SusyLuvsPaul wrote:

            Now there's another debate about "Eleanor Rigby." A fan maintains Paul said he got the idea for the song title from the name of the actress Eleanor Bron and the name of a Liverpool famous family, surname "Rigby." I always read that Paul said he saw the whole name on an very old tombstone in an old Liverpool cemetary. I never read that poster's particular explanation. He keeps swearing his is true.

            That's exactly how Paul explained in his very recent Google video on YouTube.  It's easy to find.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
            • Kestrel
              Kestrel last edited by

              "For a time McCartney settled on the name Miss Daisy Hawkins, but rejected it for its lack of realism. He took the name Rigby from a shop in Bristol: Rigby & Evens Ltd, Wine & Spirit Shippers. He spotted the name while visiting Jane Asher, who was appearing in The Happiest Days Of Your Life at the Bristol Old Vic theatre. The name Eleanor was after Eleanor Bron, who played the female lead in Help!."

              The above is from the BeatlesBible entry and the naming of Jane Asher's play is handy to know as it narrows down the date to when Paul came up with the name 'Eleanor Rigby'. Jane was in The Happiest Days of Your Life between December 1965 & January 1966. Personally I think the 'gravestone' connection is just a coincidence. Even if Paul did hang out in the graveyard with John when younger, it wouldn't have been for at least  6 or 7 years and I doubt he would have remembered one name on one gravestone, even subconsciously. George Tremlett first reported Paul's version of how he wrote 'Eleanor Rigby' (Eleanor Bron / Bristol Shop name) in his book 'The Paul McCartney story', back in 1975. And the source of that info came from an earlier Sunday Times article. Paul's consistantly stuck to the same story (for at least 43 years) so I think it can be accepted that his version is pretty much true.

              Wembley Empire Pool, London  (Wings) 21st October 1976.

              'Take It Away' video shoot Elstree studios, London 23rd June 1982.

              'Give My Regards To Broad Street' film premier, London 29th November 1984.

              Docklands Arena rehearsal concert, London 5th February 1993.

              Run Devil Run launch party, Equinox Club, London 30th September 1999.

              O2 Arena, London 22nd December 2009.

              O2 Arena, London 5th December 2011.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
              • SusyLuvsPaul
                SusyLuvsPaul last edited by

                I just seemed to remember reading the tombstone explanation in a lot of old Beatle books I read. At least some. Paul has said most Beatle books are "rubbish" and it's true there are many, well, I'll come right out and say "lies" in many of them.  Some lies. A kinder term is "mistakes." The authors didn't always mean to prevaricate. Sometimes they were told the wrong things, sometimes they just got it wrong by humor error. As Paul sang in "Early Days" how could they know unless they were there themselves.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                • Nancy R
                  Nancy R last edited by

                  SusyLuvsPaul wrote:

                  I just seemed to remember reading the tombstone explanation in a lot of old Beatle books I read. At least some. Paul has said most Beatle books are "rubbish" and it's true there are many, well, I'll come right out and say "lies" in many of them.  Some lies. A kinder term is "mistakes." The authors didn't always mean to prevaricate. Sometimes they were told the wrong things, sometimes they just got it wrong by humor error. As Paul sang in "Early Days" how could they know unless they were there themselves.

                  The tombstone thing only came out in more recent years. The true story has been around, like Kestrel said, for at least 43 years.

                  Omni, Atlanta, GA May 18, 1976, Feb. 17, 1990

                  GA Dome, Atlanta, GA May 1, 1993

                  Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA May 12, 2002

                  FedEx Forum, Memphis, TN May 26, 2013

                  Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA Oct. 15, 2014

                  Infinite Energy Center, Duluth, GA July 13, 2017

                  Bon Secours Arena, Greenville, SC May 30, 2019

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                  • Kestrel
                    Kestrel last edited by

                    Nancy R wrote:

                    SusyLuvsPaul wrote:

                    I just seemed to remember reading the tombstone explanation in a lot of old Beatle books I read. At least some. Paul has said most Beatle books are "rubbish" and it's true there are many, well, I'll come right out and say "lies" in many of them.  Some lies. A kinder term is "mistakes." The authors didn't always mean to prevaricate. Sometimes they were told the wrong things, sometimes they just got it wrong by humor error. As Paul sang in "Early Days" how could they know unless they were there themselves.

                    The tombstone thing only came out in more recent years. The true story has been around, like Kestrel said, for at least 43 years.

                    I'm just waiting for someone in Liverpool (or London or...any city, town or village that Paul has visited) to discover a gravestone for Jenny Wren !! 

                    Wembley Empire Pool, London  (Wings) 21st October 1976.

                    'Take It Away' video shoot Elstree studios, London 23rd June 1982.

                    'Give My Regards To Broad Street' film premier, London 29th November 1984.

                    Docklands Arena rehearsal concert, London 5th February 1993.

                    Run Devil Run launch party, Equinox Club, London 30th September 1999.

                    O2 Arena, London 22nd December 2009.

                    O2 Arena, London 5th December 2011.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                    • Nancy R
                      Nancy R last edited by

                      This topic has come up again recently on FB. A friend of mine from Manchester sent me some interesting info (he researched this stuff like the guy on Finding Your Roots!)

                      This is the place in Bristol Paul got Rigby from:

                      This went on auction in 2013:

                      https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20771/lot/381/

                      Omni, Atlanta, GA May 18, 1976, Feb. 17, 1990

                      GA Dome, Atlanta, GA May 1, 1993

                      Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA May 12, 2002

                      FedEx Forum, Memphis, TN May 26, 2013

                      Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA Oct. 15, 2014

                      Infinite Energy Center, Duluth, GA July 13, 2017

                      Bon Secours Arena, Greenville, SC May 30, 2019

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                      • Nancy R
                        Nancy R last edited by

                        Also, Rigby was Eleanor's middle name, which was a family surname originally. She was born Eleanor Rigby Whitfield.

                        Here she is listed on 1911 census at age 15. Census was done prior to her 16th birthday (she died Oct. 10, 1939, age 44)

                        Omni, Atlanta, GA May 18, 1976, Feb. 17, 1990

                        GA Dome, Atlanta, GA May 1, 1993

                        Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA May 12, 2002

                        FedEx Forum, Memphis, TN May 26, 2013

                        Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA Oct. 15, 2014

                        Infinite Energy Center, Duluth, GA July 13, 2017

                        Bon Secours Arena, Greenville, SC May 30, 2019

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                        • Nancy R
                          Nancy R last edited by

                          Now this will blow your mind! This is census listing Eleanor's great-grandfather, William Whitfield. See his Occupation (middle of page) 🤯

                          Omni, Atlanta, GA May 18, 1976, Feb. 17, 1990

                          GA Dome, Atlanta, GA May 1, 1993

                          Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA May 12, 2002

                          FedEx Forum, Memphis, TN May 26, 2013

                          Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA Oct. 15, 2014

                          Infinite Energy Center, Duluth, GA July 13, 2017

                          Bon Secours Arena, Greenville, SC May 30, 2019

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                          • Nancy R
                            Nancy R last edited by

                            Eleanor's birth record: (born Aug. 29, 1895) My dad's dad was born in 1894 and lived until 1996 - 102 years!

                            Omni, Atlanta, GA May 18, 1976, Feb. 17, 1990

                            GA Dome, Atlanta, GA May 1, 1993

                            Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA May 12, 2002

                            FedEx Forum, Memphis, TN May 26, 2013

                            Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA Oct. 15, 2014

                            Infinite Energy Center, Duluth, GA July 13, 2017

                            Bon Secours Arena, Greenville, SC May 30, 2019

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                            • Beatles4Ever
                              Beatles4Ever last edited by

                              SusyLuvsPaul wrote:

                              I got embroiled in a minor brouhaha on a Beatles site over the title character sung about in "Eleanor Rigby" a while ago--some guys ludicrously speculated over whether Eleanor was a "pole stripper," and laughed about it, made jokes.  I called them out on it for being possibly sexist and disrespectful towards Eleanor. One poster there implied it's stupid to get upset "over a fictional character in a song" and I replied "well, you're obviously male and don't have the baggage to understand, but you could, if you tried" and he harped on it a bit, putting me down, sort of.  A high-spirited Latino woman jumped on his case, warned he might get blocked.  Perhaps I was a bit uptight and puritanical about it. I didn't like Eleanor Rigby getting talked about as if she were cheap or an exhibtionist or  something, LOL. Maybe I was unreasonable to try to spoil their fun.

                              Love the word "brouhaha."  Its fun to say...to read...and just to hear!!  laugh

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                              • Nancy R
                                Nancy R last edited by

                                Bumping this up because apparently nobody has read the wild coincidence of Eleanor's great-grandfather's occupation. I posted the census and William Whitfield is listed in the middle.

                                Omni, Atlanta, GA May 18, 1976, Feb. 17, 1990

                                GA Dome, Atlanta, GA May 1, 1993

                                Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA May 12, 2002

                                FedEx Forum, Memphis, TN May 26, 2013

                                Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA Oct. 15, 2014

                                Infinite Energy Center, Duluth, GA July 13, 2017

                                Bon Secours Arena, Greenville, SC May 30, 2019

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                                • Nancy R
                                  Nancy R last edited by

                                  Nancy R wrote:

                                  Bumping this up because apparently nobody has read the wild coincidence of Eleanor's great-grandfather's occupation. I posted the census and William Whitfield is listed in the middle.

                                  I still can't believe not one of you has responded to this! SMH

                                  Omni, Atlanta, GA May 18, 1976, Feb. 17, 1990

                                  GA Dome, Atlanta, GA May 1, 1993

                                  Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA May 12, 2002

                                  FedEx Forum, Memphis, TN May 26, 2013

                                  Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA Oct. 15, 2014

                                  Infinite Energy Center, Duluth, GA July 13, 2017

                                  Bon Secours Arena, Greenville, SC May 30, 2019

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                                  • littlewillow
                                    littlewillow last edited by

                                    Wow. It's amazing what you're delivering here. I didn't know anything about it.

                                    🌱« Take these broken wings and learn to fly »🌿 P.McC.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                                    • Nancy R
                                      Nancy R last edited by

                                      Little_Willow_ wrote:

                                      Wow. It's amazing what you're delivering here. I didn't know anything about it.

                                      Thank you Little Willow. You don't know as much about The Beatles history because I know it hasn't been that long since you became a Macca fan. I thought others here would respond, but I guess I might as well hit my head against a brick wall. Sorry, just venting.

                                      Omni, Atlanta, GA May 18, 1976, Feb. 17, 1990

                                      GA Dome, Atlanta, GA May 1, 1993

                                      Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA May 12, 2002

                                      FedEx Forum, Memphis, TN May 26, 2013

                                      Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA Oct. 15, 2014

                                      Infinite Energy Center, Duluth, GA July 13, 2017

                                      Bon Secours Arena, Greenville, SC May 30, 2019

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                                      • littlewillow
                                        littlewillow last edited by

                                        Nancy R wrote:

                                        Little_Willow_ wrote:

                                        Wow. It's amazing what you're delivering here. I didn't know anything about it.

                                        Thank you Little Willow. You don't know as much about The Beatles history because I know it hasn't been that long since you became a Macca fan. I thought others here would respond, but I guess I might as well hit my head against a brick wall. Sorry, just venting.

                                        Oh, no please don't hit your head against a brick wall. I care about you too much. Otherwise I've known the Beatles' music since 2013. But I didn't have access to as much information as I do now. I've only been interested in Mr. McCartney's music really since 2018. I still love the Beatles. But today I've taken a different path. That's also why I joined Maccabaord. 🙂
                                        I hope you won't be too upset with me.

                                        🌱« Take these broken wings and learn to fly »🌿 P.McC.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                                        • Yankeefan2
                                          Yankeefan2 last edited by

                                          Nancy R wrote:

                                          Bumping this up because apparently nobody has read the wild coincidence of Eleanor's great-grandfather's occupation. I posted the census and William Whitfield is listed in the middle.

                                          I answered on the other thread and will do it also here, funny how he was a "QuarryMan" which is the name of the group Lennon formed and eventually became "The Beatles".

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                                          • Nancy R
                                            Nancy R last edited by

                                            Little_Willow_ wrote:

                                            Nancy R wrote:

                                            Little_Willow_ wrote:

                                            Wow. It's amazing what you're delivering here. I didn't know anything about it.

                                            Thank you Little Willow. You don't know as much about The Beatles history because I know it hasn't been that long since you became a Macca fan. I thought others here would respond, but I guess I might as well hit my head against a brick wall. Sorry, just venting.

                                            Oh, no please don't hit your head against a brick wall. I care about you too much. Otherwise I've known the Beatles' music since 2013. But I didn't have access to as much information as I do now. I've only been interested in Mr. McCartney's music really since 2018. I still love the Beatles. But today I've taken a different path. That's also why I joined Maccabaord. 🙂
                                            I hope you won't be too upset with me.

                                            Never! Read what Yankeefan posted earlier on this thread. It is information you may have not known. 😉

                                            Omni, Atlanta, GA May 18, 1976, Feb. 17, 1990

                                            GA Dome, Atlanta, GA May 1, 1993

                                            Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA May 12, 2002

                                            FedEx Forum, Memphis, TN May 26, 2013

                                            Philips Arena, Atlanta, GA Oct. 15, 2014

                                            Infinite Energy Center, Duluth, GA July 13, 2017

                                            Bon Secours Arena, Greenville, SC May 30, 2019

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote
                                            • 1
                                            • 2
                                            • 1 / 2
                                            • First post
                                              Last post
                                            • TERMS & CONDITIONS
                                            • PRIVACY