Questions about "Abbey Road" album
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Yoko ruined the entire group dynamics from The White Album onwards. All the "insiders" who were there have said that. It wasn't just the fact that she took most of John's attention & desire away from the group. She openly criticized Beatle songs during development!! Imagine telling Paul McCartney what's wrong with his song ?!? She acted as a 5th Beatle, without any resemblance of musical training.
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JoeySmith:
Yoko ruined the entire group dynamics from The White Album onwards. All the "insiders" who were there have said that. It wasn't just the fact that she took most of John's attention & desire away from the group. She openly criticized Beatle songs during development!! Imagine telling Paul McCartney what's wrong with his song ?!? She acted as a 5th Beatle, without any resemblance of musical training.
What has been written of the other Beatles' reactions to her unsolicited comments regarding the recording process? Someone recently posted George's reaction to her helping herself to his biscuits one time in the studio. I wonder if any of them got fed up and simply told her off. Anyone know anything about this?
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JoeySmith:
Yoko ruined the entire group dynamics from The White Album onwards. All the "insiders" who were there have said that. It wasn't just the fact that she took most of John's attention & desire away from the group. She openly criticized Beatle songs during development!! Imagine telling Paul McCartney what's wrong with his song ?!? She acted as a 5th Beatle, without any resemblance of musical training.
Actually she did have formal musical training. I get your point - I'm just being pedantic.
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oobu24:
And that's the way John continued on...he didn't give a !@#$ what anyone else thought. And he would not be singing any Beatles songs if he were alive.
Have to disagree there. He spoke in great detail about the group and the songs in interviews in 1980. It wasn't all bad either. And in his last big concert performance with Elton John he sang Paul's song I Saw Her Standing There and Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds. If he lived I think we'd have seen him do Beatles songs live as well as reunite with them eventually. Hell even George and Paul reunited for the Anthology and they were ones most at odds with each other.
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beatlesfanrandy:
oobu24:
And that's the way John continued on...he didn't give a !@#$ what anyone else thought. And he would not be singing any Beatles songs if he were alive.
Have to disagree there. He spoke in great detail about the group and the songs in interviews in 1980. It wasn't all bad either. And in his last big concert performance with Elton John he sang Paul's song I Saw Her Standing There and Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds. If he lived I think we'd have seen him do Beatles songs live as well as reunite with them eventually. Hell even George and Paul reunited for the Anthology and they were ones most at odds with each other.
I totally don't think Yoko would let him "be a Beatle" now. She barely speaks of them...as if his life started after the Beatles. When he sang Paul's songs I thought it sounded more like a mockery.
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We've brought up various reasons of what POSSIBLY caused the group to break up but how much of the friction within the Beatles was caused by Paul's perfectionism? Was it really that serious of a problem? I personally admire that quality...can even understand someone like Barbra Streisand who I believe could be labeled "The Queen of Perfectionism".
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beatlesfanrandy:
I totally don't think Yoko would let him "be a Beatle" now. She barely speaks of them...as if his life started after the Beatles. When he sang Paul's songs I thought it sounded more like a mockery.
I'm by no means an expert on what Yoko did or did not do to cause problems within the group but what you just said above, Randy, that kind of encapsulates for me what problem "I" have with her. The fact that people would think she would "let" John do something or "not let" him do something. Wow, does that bother me. Way too controlling for my taste. Isn't music all about free-flowing creativity....even returning to free-flowing creativity of the past if that is what one wishes to do? This comes off looking like Yoko is jealous of the Beatles as if they were a past love of John's that she is competing with in her own mind. Don't mean to bash her, she has fans here and we must all respect that. It's just tough for me to understand the total dynamic between John and Yoko.
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"Beatle? I didn't know Beatle!"
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Scarlett14:
beatlesfanrandy:
I totally don't think Yoko would let him "be a Beatle" now. She barely speaks of them...as if his life started after the Beatles. When he sang Paul's songs I thought it sounded more like a mockery.
I'm by no means an expert on what Yoko did or did not do to cause problems within the group but what you just said above, Randy, that kind of encapsulates for me what problem "I" have with her. The fact that people would think she would "let" John do something or "not let" him do something. Wow, does that bother me. Way too controlling for my taste. Isn't music all about free-flowing creativity....even returning to free-flowing creativity of the past if that is what one wishes to do? This comes off looking like Yoko is jealous of the Beatles as if they were a past love of John's that she is competing with in her own mind. Don't mean to bash her, she has fans here and we must all respect that. It's just tough for me to understand the total dynamic between John and Yoko.
I obviously like and respect Yoko, because I think she's a great person, like John did. Most don't really care, and have their minds set in stone about Yoko. But for those who do care or want to know, reading the Playboy Interview with John Lennon and Yoko Ono is enlightening on the subject. John lashes out at anyone who believes that Yoko controls him in any way, and he says pointedly that the only one who controls him is him, "and that's just barely possible!" Also, for another excellent lesson to anyone who believes they did not truly love one another, should watch the excellent DVD Lennonyc about John's 10 years of living in New York City after leaving England. Both will open anybody else's eyes about John Ono Lennon and how he felt about her.
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Erik in NJ:
"Beatle? I didn't know Beatle!"
Yoko used to say "Beatles" this and "Beatles" that and either Paul or George used to tell her, "It's The Beatles, love!" (well, maybe they didn't say the "love.")
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Erik in NJ:
"Beatle? I didn't know Beatle!"
In this video they actually say that...and a LOT more. George says,,,and she was suddenly in the band. :
oh & adding my necessary tie in...I would not want to be there for that part. -
Scarlett14:
We've brought up various reasons of what POSSIBLY caused the group to break up but how much of the friction within the Beatles was caused by Paul's perfectionism? ".
Hectoring.
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Nancy R:
Erik in NJ:
Despite John's insistence that he'd never sing "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" at 30 or 40 or whatever he used to go on about (great sound bite, but that's about it), I think he would be singing it now for money just the way George came to Paul "hat in hand." The other Beatles didn't have the same incredible financial success as Paul and I believe when the cash flow slowed down they would have sung songs they claimed they wouldn't sing. They all liked money and none of them were handing theirs out!
While I don't think John would do I Want To Hold Your Hand, there are tons of other later Beatles songs I could see him doing.
According to writer Castor Dekker, Yoko Ono revealed after her husband?s death that, ?John said, ?We have to sing ?I Want To Hold Your Hand??. Solo classics ?Imagine?, ?Give Peace A Chance? and ?Instant Karma? were A-list contenders, as were the then-current ?Starting Over? and ?Woman?, and even newer songs set aside for the couple?s next projected album release, Milk And Honey, including ?Nobody Told Me?, ?Borrowed Time? and Ono?s disco-flavoured ?Walking On Thin Ice?. http://www.tpimagazine.com/Chronicle/744052/the_lost_lennon_tour.html
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Yes, even Yoko Ono confirmed it: "I don?t remember if he was thinking of doing ?SHE LOVES YOU.? He definitely was thinking of doing ?I WANT TO HOLD YOUR HAND.? but who knows. He may have changed his mind at the last minute. Don?t count on anything in life. Just enjoy as it happens.", she stated after a fan asked her about this through Twitter.
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moptops:
[According to writer Castor Dekker, Yoko Ono revealed after her husband?s death that, ?John said, ?We have to sing ?I Want To Hold Your Hand??. Solo classics ?Imagine?, ?Give Peace A Chance? and ?Instant Karma? were A-list contenders, as were the then-current ?Starting Over? and ?Woman?, and even newer songs set aside for the couple?s next projected album release, Milk And Honey, including ?Nobody Told Me?, ?Borrowed Time? and Ono?s disco-flavoured ?Walking On Thin Ice?. http://www.tpimagazine.com/Chronicle/744052/the_lost_lennon_tour.html
Good article--thanks for posting the link!
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oobu24:
Nancy R:
beatlesfanrandy:
SurSteven:
John created...The Beatles...And it was John's way...of giving everyone else in the band...that predictable and timely chance...to carry on with their lives. What was wrong with that?
That is a very wise answer. He was John Effing Lennon (or Ono Lennon by then) and it didn't matter what anybody else thought. If they didn't like it the band could break up...and that's exactly what happened.
Do you guys really believe that John brought Yoko into the studio for the purpose of breaking up the Beatles?!
And that's the way John continued on...he didn't give a !@#$ what anyone else thought. And he would not be singing any Beatles songs if he were alive.
I don't think that John planned it that way. It was simply a natural progression of events. They had accomplished everything they could as a band. There was nowhere left for them to go. I am quite glad for all of the good songs that were to follow.
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John loved Paul, George, and Ringo, and everything they accomplished together. He did not like the way they treated him and Yoko. It wasn't just Yoko, it was him too. Plus, there was a lot of unsavory business with Apple. It was a natural split. It wasn't caused by anybody. It was caused by everybody. It was an organic event as much as John meeting Paul in 1957. It was History, happening as it was supposed to happen. There is nothing that was gonna keep The Beatles together. Yet they never split up spiritually either. There's something to be said for that!
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beatlesfanrandy:
John loved Paul, George, and Ringo, and everything they accomplished together. He did not like the way they treated him and Yoko. It wasn't just Yoko, it was him too. Plus, there was a lot of unsavory business with Apple. It was a natural split. It wasn't caused by anybody. It was caused by everybody. It was an organic event as much as John meeting Paul in 1957. It was History, happening as it was supposed to happen. There is nothing that was gonna keep The Beatles together. Yet they never split up spiritually either. There's something to be said for that!
I actually think I agree with everything you said.
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beatlesfanrandy:
John loved Paul, George, and Ringo, and everything they accomplished together. He did not like the way they treated him and Yoko. It wasn't just Yoko, it was him too. Plus, there was a lot of unsavory business with Apple. It was a natural split. It wasn't caused by anybody. It was caused by everybody. It was an organic event as much as John meeting Paul in 1957. It was History, happening as it was supposed to happen. There is nothing that was gonna keep The Beatles together. Yet they never split up spiritually either. There's something to be said for that!
Amen I roughly remember a Paul quote, "We were just 4 guys "mates""friends""brothers" who loved each other very much."
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SurSteven:
I don't think that John planned it that way. It was simply a natural progression of events. They had accomplished everything they could as a band. There was nowhere left for them to go. I am quite glad for all of the good songs that were to follow.
I have to take exception to the statement "They had accomplished everything they could as a band--there was nowhere left for them to go." What on earth do you base this statement on? It's as trite as saying "it was destiny for them to meet" and "everything happens for a reason." Yoko was a major catalyst for the tensions within the band according to several source in and outside of the band. Even with her ubiquitous presence, they certainly did not accomplish everything they could have as a band. If what you're saying is true they had no more good music left in them as a team...sorry I totally disagree with that. I think without Yoko in the mix (the wooden sabot in the works) I think we would have seen more brilliant albums by the Beatles into the 70s and we could have avoided some of the tortured dirges like "I'm So Tired."