The 2012 and beyond Political Thread - Part 2
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I'm so incredibly proud of the US. Bob Dylan said it best "The Times they are achanging"
It's taken over 50 years but we now have a REELECTED bi-racial AA man as President. We have marriage equality for all which can't move forward fast enough. The fight for equality for women has been advanced with laws to promote equal pay and with women securing their right to their own reproductive health decisions. We have health care for all being implemented. We have Wall St reform and consumer protections moving full speed ahead. etc, etc It's taken too long but I'm so proud we are getting there -
It is amazing. ALL of the same-sex marriage initiatives passed -- and decisively! American is leaning more and more left -- and it is a beautiful thing. Conservatives are being left in our progressive dust.
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I'm just lucky we won't have to stand (yes, "we the world" even it's only a USA president) someone kind of like Bush Jr. About Obama and the economy and Wall St., etc I don't think they're right either. The corporations, too big to fall and all that... whether Romney or Obama it's a Wall Street government. But Romney is just a worse possible president. If ever as a PR... Romney says things like he's clueless or so. I think a president of the USA (or Spain...) has way much little power that it seems to have. Well, there he can't even pass a law. It's more like the guy on TV talking to the people, a PR man... I keep on saying than the Dems and the Reps agree on most economic stuff. Not on political stuff, just like happens here. They may disagree on gay marriage, abortion, wars, etc. but not on economy. Cause they're united by the Big Corporations, they have that in common... and Big Corporations don't care about gay marriage, abortion or things like that, I mean civil rights cause business or profits are not much related to it.... but they care about economy the way they care. Does gay marriage have some effect on the big banks, the oil companies, Wal-mart, the software companies, the car companies...? Pretty much NO. But a law over the environment, for instance will matter to oil companies. A law over the internet to the software ones. A law about the economy to the banks, so on. That's where the corporations/Wall street rules. They openly say they "support both parties". In our time is corporations who have the power (because we give them so), except for things they just don't care about, those things they can't sell or buy. But corporations are nothing but people, they're not some kind of monsters. Kind of ordinary people that happen to have more possessions that the average person whatever the cause. Only is not that easy, a corporation is legally a person, and it has even more rights than a normal person (Limited liability, easier access to credit, less "punishability", just compare the number of people in jails with the number of corporation closed by the government...). It doesn't have a conscience or morals (the ones ruling it can have it but not the corporation itself but it is a person anyway) but they have rights and power. Yet it has more power than the people with conscience and morals, etc. We people are just second class citizens. Corporations are the first class and we are subordinates. Even Bill Gates is a subordinate.
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Mod Post Hi folks, we appreciate it is metaphorically "the morning after the night before" but rhetoric and personal attacks have strayed over the line a bit today. We removed a series of posts and images that triggered the dispute. We note the two main protagonists agreed to differ and stop addressing each other's posts for a period and we commend that insight. Would all parties to this debate please temper down the more antagonistic posts and allow the dust to settle. Whilst they may have been biting their tongues as they spoke, both Presidential candidates did congratulate each other on a hard fought election campaign and commit to working together for the greater good of the USA. Perhaps we too could do something similar here? Thanks Martin
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Freedom Works has put together a list of companies that will be laying off employees as a result of President Barack Obama's health care law Welch Allyn Welch Allyn, a company that manufactures medical diagnostic equipment in central New York, announced in September that they would be laying off 275 employees, or roughly 10% of their workforce over the next three years. One of the major reasons discussed for the layoffs was a proactive response to the Medical Device Tax mandated by the new healthcare law. Dana Holding Corp. As recently as a week ago, a global auto parts manufacturing company in Ohio known as Dana Holding Corp., warned their employees of potential layoffs, citing "$24 million over the next six years in additional U.S. health care expenses". After laying off several white collar staffers, company insiders have hinted at more to come. The company will have to cover the additional $24 million cost somehow, which will likely equate to numerous cuts in their current workforce of 25,500 worldwide. Stryker One of the biggest medical device manufacturers in the world, Stryker will close their facility in Orchard Park, New York, eliminating 96 jobs in December. Worse, they plan on countering the medical device tax in Obamacare by slashing 5% of their global workforce - an estimated 1,170 positions. Boston Scientific In October of 2009, Boston Scientific CEO Ray Elliott, warned that proposed taxes in the health care reform bill could "lead to significant job losses" for his company. Nearly two years later, Elliott announced that the company would be cutting anywhere between 1,200 and 1,400 jobs, while simultaneously shifting investments and workers overseas - to China. Medtronic In March of 2010, medical device maker Medtronic warned that Obamacare taxes could result in a reduction of precisely 1,000 jobs. That plan became reality when the company cut 500 positions over the summer, with another 500 set for the end of 2013. Others A short list of other companies facing future layoffs at the hands of Obamacare Smith & Nephew - 770 layoffs Abbott Labs - 700 layoffs Covidien - 595 layoffs Kinetic Concepts - 427 layoffs St. Jude Medical - 300 layoffs Hill Rom - 200 layoffs Beyond the complete elimination of a significant number of American jobs is another looming problem created by the health care law - a shift from full-time to part-time workers. Get ready, there's a tsunami coming, and it isn't going to be pretty at all, America we are going to reap what we have sown! May God have mercy on us!
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An article from The Street reports ?Unless the small business you own or work for is in the health care industry, (ObamaCare) ?is the biggest tax and headwind facing your business or job.? ?Buried within 2,700 pages of? (ObamaCare) is a requirement that businesses provide all employees with ?acceptable? health insurance coverage. (ObamaCare) ?also exempts businesses with 49 or fewer full time employees?.? ?Businesses with 50 or more people will face a $2,000 non-tax-deductible penalty for every employee over 30 if employers don?t offer approved insurance. Even with a health insurance offering, if any employee receives a government subsidy for their insurance, the employer will receive a $3,000 penalty for each employee. About 100,000 employers and 4 million employees will be impacted.? This means there is a big incentive for any business with slightly more than 49 employees to lay off employees until they trim down to 49 so they can evade all the paperwork headaches and severe fines that come with being a ?big business? under the terms of ObamaCare. That?s the problem with big government socialists like Obama They think they?re creating a workers? paradise, but they?re imposing all sorts of additional unpaid work and onerous regulations on small business owners, and the government hacks simply assume that business owners will happily fill out all the government forms and set up all the additional bureaucracy that they mandate. Meanwhile Joe Sixpack who was employee number 53 just got laid off from his job so the business owner could avoid exceeding an artificial government threshold. There are liberals running around trying to defend ObamaCara, telling people how great it will be, but real business owners, like the ones quoted above, have very real reasons to fire employees once it goes into effect, and the reelection of Barack Obama means that it is going into effect. Not all small business owners will want to keep working. There will be small business owners, who decide to permanently close their doors, retire and not deal with all the new regulations, fines and paperwork headaches. If a business becomes unprofitable and not fun to do anymore, you can?t expect the business owner to keep doing it.
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left hand man:
Not all small business owners will want to keep working. There will be small business owners, who decide to permanently close their doors, retire and not deal with all the new regulations, fines and paperwork headaches. If a business becomes unprofitable and not fun to do anymore, you can?t expect the business owner to keep doing it.
It's already begun, there have been numerous accounts already of closures and layoffs. http://twitchy.com/2012/11/08/forward-obama-won-had-to-fire-22-employees-small-business-owners-on-twitter-doing-same/ http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11/07/vegas-employer-obama-won-so-i-fired-22-employees/#.UJut6oKlX9o.twitter
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I've been trying to share with people, that Obama just isn't good for America, but the Obambies (Obama zombies) just wouldn't listen, now we all are going to pay bigtime! I'm seriously concerned about my children and grandchildrens future?
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Let's share this info. with people today freedom works the org. lefthand man is using for his source is the major tea party group The founder of freedom works is Dick Armey who is known as intellectually flexible (for those who don't know what that means...it means he doesn't use facts and is all over the place in his opinions) Read the article below which quotes Armey saying crap like this:
"Jamestown colony, when it was first founded as a socialist venture, dang near failed with everybody dead and dying in the snow," Armey reported in his luncheon address. Who knew they had socialists in 1607?
And this:
"The small-government conservative movement, which includes people who call themselves the tea party patriots and so forth, is about the principles of liberty as embodied in the Constitution, the understanding of which is fleshed out if you read things like the Federalist Papers," Armey explained. The problem with Democrats and other "people here who do not cherish America the way we do," he explained, is "they did not read the Federalist Papers." ad_icon And this oversight makes the tea partiers mad. "Who the heck do these people think they are to try to sit in this town with their audacity and second-guess the greatest genius, most creative genius, in the history of the world?" Armey demanded. A member of the audience passed a question to the moderator, who read it to Armey: How can the Federalist Papers be an inspiration for the tea party, when their principal author, Alexander Hamilton, "was widely regarded then and now as an advocate of a strong central government"? Historian Armey was flummoxed by this new information. "Widely regarded by whom?" he challenged, suspiciously. "Today's modern ill-informed political science professors? . . . I just doubt that was the case in fact about Hamilton." Alas, for Armey, it was the case. Hamilton favored a national bank, presidents and senators who served for life and state governors appointed by the president.
armey is misinformed and doesn't know what he is talking about : : He is such a great leader for the group known for their chant: "Keep the government out of my Medicare" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/15/AR2010031503730.html Also Forbes researched whether ObamaCares would kill jobs ...here're the facts read the entire article and click the links to the study and read that. http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/06/11/will-obamacare-kill-jobs-a-new-study-says-no/ people who believe the lies about ObamaCares killing jobs have been suckered yet again
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audi:
As a black man, I was prepared to be confronted, attacked or worse by some yahoo when Obama was elected in '08. I don't remember what city, but a group of white racists murdered an innocent black on Inauguration Day '09. I pray things go better this time. However, the anger coming from the right only feeds into hatred of the extremists.
Sadly there's always yahoos and idiots everywhere. I have to believe that people with at least common sense and decency outnumber the idiots and yahoos. Although some of the stuff from the extreme right is very scary. Then again, extremeism in any form is dangerous.
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I am just hoping that the individuals who have been giving me a hard time following the bush elections will not harrass me and others who felt intimidated by them for voting on a democratic ticket. I voted for obama but I am not a zombie. Only a citizen of limited means. Those who think less of us rather than try to understand the situations fail to think they could be in the same boat. Obama cares for the people, not just the elite in this country love doris
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While people have the right to disagree with each other, violence against anyone is never cool. Never.
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There isn't a kinder person on the planet than Sally ...
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mustangsally10:
Also Forbes researched whether ObamaCares would kill jobs ...here're the facts read the entire article and click the links to the study and read that. http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/06/11/will-obamacare-kill-jobs-a-new-study-says-no/ people who believe the lies about ObamaCares killing jobs have been suckered yet again
As we speak, layoffs and closures are happening. Obamacare is killing jobs, you can continue to deny it, but it is happening.
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AbbeyRoadCrosser:
mustangsally10:
Also Forbes researched whether ObamaCares would kill jobs ...here're the facts read the entire article and click the links to the study and read that. http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/06/11/will-obamacare-kill-jobs-a-new-study-says-no/ people who believe the lies about ObamaCares killing jobs have been suckered yet again
As we speak, layoffs and closures are happening. Obamacare is killing jobs, you can continue to deny it, but it is happening.
The right wing is in meltdown and on this thread it's best to source your remarks to prove that they are indeed related to facts. There are some RW CEOs who had erroneously thought that they could influence the election by stating that they would have to fire employees because of ObamaCares such as the CEO of PapaJohns. The reality is that the CEO of Papajohns says he will give away 2 million pizzas but he won't do anything for his employees healthcare http://www.papajohns.com/twomillionpizza/ Free pizzas? No problem! Providing health care to workers? It's just too large a burden to bear. Papa johns ceo and founder compensation: http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/news/2012/03/19/papa-johns-ceo-schnatter-earned-more.html
Schnatter?s total compensation rose to $2.75 million in 2011 from $2.61 million in 2010. Schnatter also owns nearly 6.1 million shares of Papa John?s stock, which is 24.7 percent of outstanding shares. Schnatter was No. 11 on Business First?s 2011 list of highest paid executives of publicly traded companies that are based locally. That list was based on executives? 2010 salaries.
He's just another greedy guy like mittens who doesn't care about his employees and can't get enough money to satisfy himself GET A GRIP, WINGERS you're being suckered again
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For those freaking out over the final popular vote #'s here are the most recent from 11/10**
U.S. vote count Obama/Biden (D) 61,713,086 51% Romney/Ryan (R) 58,510,150 48% Florida vote count* Obama/Biden (D) 4,236,032 50.01% Romney/Ryan (R) 4,162,174 49.13% Difference 73,858 0.88% Total Florida votes cast: 8,489,202 Florida turnout: 71.13% Electoral College count: Obama 332 (29 from Florida), Romney 206 When Florida called: 12:40 p.m. Saturday, final state
**There are still some outstanding votes especially in the west, which Obama won overwhelmingly so he should gain even more in the popular vote...but right now it is: 51 to 48 percent Obama win http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/article1260999.ece
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mustangsally10:
AbbeyRoadCrosser:
mustangsally10:
Also Forbes researched whether ObamaCares would kill jobs ...here're the facts read the entire article and click the links to the study and read that. http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/06/11/will-obamacare-kill-jobs-a-new-study-says-no/ people who believe the lies about ObamaCares killing jobs have been suckered yet again
As we speak, layoffs and closures are happening. Obamacare is killing jobs, you can continue to deny it, but it is happening.
The right wing is in meltdown and on this thread it's best to source your remarks to prove that they are indeed related to facts. There are some RW CEOs who had erroneously thought that they could influence the election by stating that they would have to fire employees because of ObamaCares such as the CEO of PapaJohns. The reality is that the CEO of Papajohns says he will give away 2 million pizzas but he won't do anything for his employees healthcare http://www.papajohns.com/twomillionpizza/
http://twitchy.com/2012/11/08/forward-obama-won-had-to-fire-22-employees-small-business-owners-on-twitter-doing-same/ Numerous accounts of small businesses on Twitter closing shop and laying off employees. http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11/07/vegas-employer-obama-won-so-i-fired-22-employees/#.UJut6oKlX9o.twitter Actual article of a small business laying off because of Obamacare. I posted these links in my initial post. Maybe you should have checked your facts before you start making wild accusations. It seems the only person being suckered here is you.
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AbbeyRoadCrosser:
mustangsally10:
AbbeyRoadCrosser:
mustangsally10:
Also Forbes researched whether ObamaCares would kill jobs ...here're the facts read the entire article and click the links to the study and read that. http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/06/11/will-obamacare-kill-jobs-a-new-study-says-no/ people who believe the lies about ObamaCares killing jobs have been suckered yet again
As we speak, layoffs and closures are happening. Obamacare is killing jobs, you can continue to deny it, but it is happening.
The right wing is in meltdown and on this thread it's best to source your remarks to prove that they are indeed related to facts. There are some RW CEOs who had erroneously thought that they could influence the election by stating that they would have to fire employees because of ObamaCares such as the CEO of PapaJohns. The reality is that the CEO of Papajohns says he will give away 2 million pizzas but he won't do anything for his employees healthcare http://www.papajohns.com/twomillionpizza/
http://twitchy.com/2012/11/08/forward-obama-won-had-to-fire-22-employees-small-business-owners-on-twitter-doing-same/ Numerous accounts of small businesses on Twitter closing shop and laying off employees. http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11/07/vegas-employer-obama-won-so-i-fired-22-employees/#.UJut6oKlX9o.twitter Actual article of a small business laying off because of Obamacare. I posted these links in my initial post. Maybe you should have checked your facts before you start making wild accusations. It seems the only person being suckered here is you.
Many employers will fire employees would supported Obama no matter how it affects their business check all the links below: [fficial&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np" >https://www.google.com/search?q=business owners will fire employees who voted obama&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np](https://www.google.com/search?q=business owners will fire employees who voted obama&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US<img src=) they're in meltdown(just like you're in meltdown) because mittens didn't get elected and they're taking it out on employees who voted for Obama...how very republican You may just have to chill and get a grip to give things a chance to calm down there's nothing you can do so give it a break.
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one - it aint a trouncing two - due to the f***** usa constitution it can't be called a mandate for radical reform. three - wake up america. the rethoric does not match the truth. you cannot militarily boss the world ( you never could) and you cannot boss it economically ( powerless since 1998 or a bit later). four - ignore polls from other countries, you elect your government no one else does. obama and the European Union won the peace prize LMFAO. five - realise that the last 20 years your country has got weaker economically part of it was inevitable but it has been excavabeted by the upper class ( yes you are class riden) in search of bonuses ( not earned by skill) by outsourching overseaseas. And placing the outsourcing into your country's next competitor. You have problems raising the currency exchange why? because CHINA owns so much of your debt. # Solution to your impasse in political and economically thinking can be found, just dont vote for anoybody who attended havard or vale.
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mustangsally10:
AbbeyRoadCrosser:
mustangsally10:
AbbeyRoadCrosser:
mustangsally10:
Also Forbes researched whether ObamaCares would kill jobs ...here're the facts read the entire article and click the links to the study and read that. http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/06/11/will-obamacare-kill-jobs-a-new-study-says-no/ people who believe the lies about ObamaCares killing jobs have been suckered yet again
As we speak, layoffs and closures are happening. Obamacare is killing jobs, you can continue to deny it, but it is happening.
The right wing is in meltdown and on this thread it's best to source your remarks to prove that they are indeed related to facts. There are some RW CEOs who had erroneously thought that they could influence the election by stating that they would have to fire employees because of ObamaCares such as the CEO of PapaJohns. The reality is that the CEO of Papajohns says he will give away 2 million pizzas but he won't do anything for his employees healthcare http://www.papajohns.com/twomillionpizza/
http://twitchy.com/2012/11/08/forward-obama-won-had-to-fire-22-employees-small-business-owners-on-twitter-doing-same/ Numerous accounts of small businesses on Twitter closing shop and laying off employees. http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11/07/vegas-employer-obama-won-so-i-fired-22-employees/#.UJut6oKlX9o.twitter Actual article of a small business laying off because of Obamacare. I posted these links in my initial post. Maybe you should have checked your facts before you start making wild accusations. It seems the only person being suckered here is you.
Many employers will fire employees would supported Obama no matter how it affects their business check all the links below: [fficial&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np" >https://www.google.com/search?q=business owners will fire employees who voted obama&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np](https://www.google.com/search?q=business owners will fire employees who voted obama&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US<img src=) they're in meltdown(just like you're in meltdown) because mittens didn't get elected and they're taking it out on employees who voted for Obama...how very republican You may just have to chill and get a grip to give things a chance to calm down there's nothing you can do so give it a break.
Lets lay out two choices here, lets see which one seems more likely. A. Employers are laying off and closing shop doors to get revenge against the President because he won and their candidate lost. In doing this they are either hurting themselves and/or their business. B. Employers are laying off and closing shop because they are hurting already and can't afford Obamacare. They really wish they didn't have to fire people, it's hurts their employes and themselves, but the increasing costs are just too much. And they know a hell lot more about their business than you do. It's ridiculous that you think they're laying off simply to get revenge. These are real people that are struggling, they are not evil or greedy as you would like to think. Your claims are simply baffling.